[Theoretical Thursday #1]

[sythyry]

Mirrored from Sythyry.

[OOC: Sythyry is going to fuss around, privately, with the theory of transaffection. If you want to comment, zie will pay attention and it may have an influence on how zir theories evolve. (Not necessarily the influence you want, but that's true with any theoretical discussion.) I will post the fussing on Thursdays, and keep actual story on MWF, or that's the plan. -bb]

I am now very, very confused, and apprehensive, and upset, and worried, and confused, and distressed, and perplexed, and confused, and confused.

1. Am I cisaffectionate really? I must admit that I responded to Saza as eagerly as I did to Arfaen or Thenel … maybe less than Mynthë? Or maybe I am not remembering that perfectly? It is decades ago now, and I did not write the details down.
2. If I’m really cisaffectionate, what should I do vis-a-vis Castle Wrong? Can I have an estate like Castle Wrong if I’m not actually wrong?
3. Haven’t I just betrayed most of my closest friends?
4. And/or I betrayed Tarfnie. In 4363, Tarfnie broke up with his Herethroy coloverfriend, and got involved with another Rassimel. There was Considerable Drama around this change, and even some Doom. In the end it was decided that Tarfnie was not traff, and, in fact, not Wrong, and so should no longer live in Castle Wrong. We’re still not really on speaking terms with Tarfnie. (This sort of thing has happened, with variations and complications, a number of times. Tarfnie is the one that stings the most of recent: he and I were very good friends beforehand.) And I didn’t behave that differently from Tarfnie.
5. Maybe I’m not really traff. I have never been much interested in Khtsoyis, or Sleeth, or Gormoror. Not really. If I were actually traff, I’d be just as excited by them as by Orren … right?
6. And Mynthë sometimes did tease me by turning into a Zi Ri and making out with me. Which I enjoyed as much as everything else with Mynthë, even if it was a bit perplexing and embarrassing.
7. Maybe I’m not really cissy, just, well, horny, and Saza was available. I’d have gone for a Rassy or a Cani just as fast, and an Orren much faster.
8. Wouldn’t I? How can I be sure of that?
9. If I’m really cisaffectionate … that would explain why I’m always so reluctant to get involved by my own clients. Right? ’cause I don’t really want to get involved with them, not really. I really want other Zi Ri, even if I won’t (wouldn’t?) admit it to myself. It all sort of hangs together, doesn’t it?
10. I’ll have to … move somewhere else where I can find lovers, right? One of the Zi Ri cities, or at least a city with more than one other Zi Ri in it. Where I will be (a) exceedingly young, and (b) have a terrible reputation as a traff pervert, so it won’t even work very well.
11. And abandon Castle Wrong and betray everyone in it.
12. Even if I like people of other species — like the more than my own — I am obviously a total slut, willing and eager to fornicate with anyone who shows me the least bit of interest or attention or affection.

I suppose I really ought to make up my mind: cisaffectionate? or transaffectionate? After more than a century of being traff, I think I have persuaded myself that transaffection is nearly as much an expression of true honest-to-gods love and pleasure as cisaffection is supposed to be. (For the record: I think I understand cisaffection better as of today, and I think I was completely right in all regards about transaffection.) So I’m really not abandoning it just because I’ll rip off my ribbons for the first vaguely appealing Zi Ri I happen to meet in an alley somewhere.

Even though, well, I basically did, didn’t I?

So I’m basically like Inconnu. Except that Inconnu is an honest and clear traff slut, and I am just a plain dishonest … libertine, I suppose. I suppose I’ll be holding that kind of party any day now, with wenezza cookies all ’round, and honest-and-honorable Phaniet will be pretending she doesn’t know me.

I’m babbling, aren’t I?

For the moment I will pretend that I am still the Sythyry I am used to, that everyone in Castle Wrong is used to, and perhaps I will sort this terrible mess out.

The Theory

The last century and a half has taught me that there are three sorts of primes:

Cisaffectionate	Capable of lusting for and loving their own species.
Transaffectionate	Capable of lusting for and loving all seven other species.
Libertine	Lusts for all eight species; incapable of love.

I have been assuming that I was transaffectionate, and that I actually loved Mynthë. I suspect now that I am actually a libertine, and I merely pretended to everyone (including myself) that I loved her.

Honestly I’d rather be cissy than a libertine.

Comments

[xanadinah.livejournal.com]

For someone so old (by most Primes' standard) you're being remarkably naïve. Why is it so important which set of seven (or more, or fewer) species you're capable of loving? I like some Rassimel, but there are otherPrimes I am more interested in than I am in my fiancé specifically (and this is fairly well-known among people who are not him. At least the not-really-interested-in-him part). Because he is boring, and somePrimes who happen to not be Rassimel are interesting despite this! Maybe even because of it!

[shurhaian.livejournal.com]

If you mourn for someone for half a century and more, I doubt that's "pretending" to love them - it's close enough as makes no mind, anyway.

It's obvious to me that you were legitimately fond of Mynthë. Too many cues have cropped up, back then and since, to think otherwise.

As far as affection goes, you're still stuck in a false duality. People have sorted themselves into the labels of cis- and transaffectionate (and libertine as aside from that) because that's how things are done, and it's a vicious circle. It tries to sort something as complex as love(and lust, for that matter) into neat cubbyholes, and life really doesn't work that way in most regards.

Stop fussing about the labels. That's honestly the simplest way to do things. You've enough interest in other species that you wouldn't be 'dishonest' by keeping up Castle Wrong, even if you do have an occasional fling with another Zi Ri - they're rare enough that short of, say, convincing Saza to move in with you, you're not likely to have it happen on anything resembling a regular basis anyway.

The only thing that says such attraction must be to your own OR to ALL other prime species is convention. Saying "well, obviously it's so" in the face of empirical data to the contrary is at best silly, and there are a number of uglier words for it, too.

[goodluckfox.livejournal.com]

Why does traffness EXCLUDE loving your own species? Here in one-species-of-monster-land, we categorize by whether you lust for and love your own sex, the opposite sex, or both sexes.

I see no reason why you can't love your own species as well as as many others as you want.

Are there really Primes who do it with monsters who are sufficiently non-monstrous (norren for example, or pehaps taptet?)

[shurhaian.livejournal.com]

A relevant point here is that there are STILL people who insist that it's either one or the other. They're becoming increasingly discredited, though, because people are proving, more and more, that they don't necessarily fit into those neat cubbyholes.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

[A Marriage of Insects features a Sleeth who spends a good portion of the novel having a relationship with a non-prime.]

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

[And shocks everyone else!]

[mmsword.livejournal.com]

Sleeth aren't exactly known to be the pillars of social order or acceptable behavior. Which frankly might be a good lesson.

[sianmink.livejournal.com]

A Sleeth needs to work at it to shock people, considering there aren't really high expectations for their behavior!

[redbird]

If point 5 makes you "not really traff," it also makes you not really a libertine: you don't lust sleeth, gormoror, or khtsoyis.

I also suspect that a lot of traff people are not, in fact, attracted to members of all seven other prime species. It's just that that's more noticeable in a zi ri, because of your long lives. If, say, a rassimel who is attracted only to cani finds a partner and settles down with zir, it may not matter much to them or anyone else whether they're eyeing the occasional orren or fantasizing about khtsoyis. You've known for a very long time that you prefer orren; I suspect that's still true, even if the list of primes you can be interested in is longer than you'd realized.

[rowyn]

It's worth noting that Sleeth, Khtsoyis, Gormorror, and for that matter Zi Ri, are all not only in the category of "Primes Sythyry has almost never been attracted to" but also in the category of "Primes that are much, much rarer than the other species".

If Sythyry was monogamous with Mynthe, then I believe zie has had, what, eight lovers in zir entire life? Out of how many hundreds or thousands of Primes zie has known? Almost all of whom would be Rassimel, Orren, Herethroy or Cani. Even if we assume zie has had ten times as many unfulfilled crushes as lovers, that still suggests there's a huge percentage of the population that zie never felt any particular interest in. Moreover, Khtsoyis, Sleeth, and Gormorror are all culturally *very* different from the other five Prime races. Finding one that zie was mentally compatible with would be quite a challenge, regardless of interest or lack thereof in the physical form.

So it wouldn't surprise me if what we're observing here is a personality bias rather than a physique bias. And it's more that zie hasn't met the right member of the remaining Prime species than that zie is categorically unattracted to those shapes.

[terrana.livejournal.com]

I still say the problem there is with your definitions; the Prime mind is not so simple to exist in a trinary state such as this with something so complex as love.

Working within those, however, I offer the following argument: Mynthë. You don't stay in a relationship that long with someone you don't love.

Other things to consider: Saza has been at this much, much longer than you have and most likely knows a thing or two about seduction, despite zir claims to being often turned down. Also, you're just off the back of a rather upsetting breakup, in turn off the back of a somewhat upsetting relationship; consider the Arfaen-related aftermath there.

For the record, while I'm a long way from Prime, I personally would be quite insulted if someone tried to tell me I'm incapable of love just because I'd consider both what's traditionally appropriate and its opposite.

[delight-in.livejournal.com]

11. And abandon Castle Wrong and betray everyone in it.

Oh no Sythyrs you CAN'T do that! That would be all kinds of horrible even if you're not really traff they need your protection! O_O

Can't you pretend you're traff for them because having a traff Zi Ri WIZARD has been sooooo good for the traff folk in Vheshrame and Grampsis always said it was way easier for traff folk there than when he was young and it's not easy NOW so I can't imagine if Castle Wrong WASN'T there to help!

Even if you're not traff and can't pretend to be maybe you could just take care of them anyway out of, um, generosity? Sort of like how Baron Smaze has a house for nose-deaf Cani even though there's nothing wrong with the Baron's nose.

[kris-schnee.livejournal.com]

*hugs the panicked Orren*

Zie's thinking about exiling zirself from Castle Wrong for not conforming strictly to the traff category, and saying zie once exiled someone from it for not liking the wrong species? That's... about the same sort of pointless intolerance zie was trying to protect people from.

[heavenscalyx.livejournal.com]

Whether or not you are [X]-affectionate, you have a responsibility to Castle Wrong and the people in it. Even if you somehow decide that you are cisaffectionate, you are sympathetic to -- nay, actively involved in -- the politics of traffness, and you have chosen to take responsibility for that involvement by creating Castle Wrong.

I suspect that you are merely affectionate. I refuse to believe that you were merely "pretending" to love Mynthë, and I believe that you were honestly interested in the body play with Saza. You are clearly not interested in all non-Zi Ri. I think the conclusion is that you are affectionate with (and can love) people of whatever species, because you are attracted to the largest sexual organ of all: the brain.

I understand the confusion, and I also understand the need for a label. But I think that you will end up determining that none of these three labels actually serve your purpose.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

"How much time he gains who does not look to see what his neighbor says or does or thinks, but only at what he does himself, to make it just and holy." -- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

After all this time in Castle Wrong, you STILL haven't gotten it's real ideal: that people should be allowed to love whomever they love without being punished for it. You're not traff or cissy or libertine. You're just Sythyry. You loved Mynthe and that was beautiful. You may someday love Saza and that would be equally beautiful. You don't need anyone's permission or approval for either.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

The one direct answer I will give is that yes, you did betray Tarfnie. In some ways, you betrayed him worse than Zascalle betrayed you. He was under attack, not just by society, but by the transffectionate community as well. And at the time he most needed a friend, most needed protection, you sent him away in the name of popularity.

The fact you did that should haunt your sleep.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Well, there is rather more to the story than I told here, including one day when I ran out of cley before I could heal everyone's wounds. (And, only after that, did I remember that I had a Heal Truly talisman about; I was in a bit of a state.)

Still, I daresay you're ultimately right.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Regardless of your personal inclinations, there's a larger problem here if people at Castle Wrong feel they're permitted to do violence to people just because they're cissfectionate. If that's the case, then Castle Wrong really is wrong, as all you've done is built a mirror for society's ugliness; reversed perhaps, but no less hideous.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I don't believe I've done that. The fights weren't about philosophical generalities of cis- and transaffection; they were about who had done what to whom, or taken what from whom.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Yes, but I'm assuming it's hardly been the first break up in Castle Wrong history. I'd also wager that the breakups don't normally devolve into brawls with dozens of injured resulting.

Why is it that they felt it was okay to get physical with someone who's "converting" to cissfection in a way they'd never dream of doing with a fellow transaffectionate prime?

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Four people injured, but some of them repeatedly. Stories vary about who threw the first knife: the convert or his ex. The story that makes the most sense is that the ex challenged the convert to a duel (which is bloody but socially acceptable), and the duel turned into a brawl (not unheard-of, but not socially acceptable).

It was one of the bloodier incidents in Castle Wrong's history: several times as bloody as the time that Havune fought Spirshash.

Which doesn't answer your question. I don't know the answer to your question, or whether the question is even well-posed.

[alonewiththemoon]

Is there anything wrong with panaffectionate or omniaffectionate or multiaffectionate? Or as a commenter above said, just plain affectionate? And if you were truly a libertine, you would not have been celibate all those years. And if a libertine is truly incapable of loving, then you most certainly are not a libertine.

[bloofox.livejournal.com]

Dear Sythyry,

With all respect and admiration, please don't be stupid. "Really" is one of the most harmful words in any language.

Are you Traff? I don't see how you could deny it, while you might be able to fool people about love I rather doubt if you could effectively fool yourself about lust. Not being interested in Khtsoyis or Gormoror makes sense to me since they're kind of unattractive while Rassimel and Orren sound positively wonderful.

Let us say that you were cisaffectionate, and you found yourself attracted to some Zi Ri and not others, would that make you not really ciff?

You show every sign of being capable of love and having a conscience and showing reservation.

Have you considered that traff is only some big dividing swath in the world because it's so unacceptable? If someone were attracted mostly to their own species and to a lesser extenet to slinky sleeths and rassimel, would you expect them to act on the latter attraction or just find a nice ciff relationship to settle down in?

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...

The last century and a half has taught me that there are three sorts of primes:

Sounds to THIS monster like you are far, FAR too young to be:

1. Making such distinctions without more experience.
2. Judging others without more experience.
3. Judging yourself without more experience.

Perhaps you should...

1. Share some poptaloops with Saza in the fireplace and think about how nice it is to have someone you can really relate to.
2. Invite someone honest about themselves, such as Inconnu, to join you in that fireplace. (With suitable protection spells, of course.
3. Take notes. You'll need them as you get older, so you'll have something to laugh at when you're much wiser and less inclined towards deprecatory introspection and self-delusion.

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

Just a few thoughts...

12) Danm it, no. No. No. No. You have got it all wrong, and it's not even your fault. It's not even ANYONES fault. No one freaking understands sluts, damn it!

Look, Virtually, I am a slut. I fully admit it, and if circumstances were different, I'd probably would have been in real life, too. It's not about the sex. It's about the people. You care about people. You like people. You want to make people happy. Sex makes people happy. So you give it freely when asked (or offer) because it makes everyone happy, even if it's just for a little bit.

The definition of slut is "Unkempt and uncaring" and that isn't completely true. Well, at least in my case, the uncaring part is half true. I wouldn't care if other people cared. It's not about them, unless they really want it to be. It's about not being afraid of love.

In a way, it's helpful to others to be a slut, for they can start separating out different kinds of loves, and realize that what they think of as love isn't exactly what they really want. Although for some of them, that is exactly what they want, and that is fine and wonderful.

The point is that you DO NOT put down yourself for being a slut! It has all sorts of evil connotation that exist artificially from people that just don't understand. Heck, your Canni people probably understand better then anyone else.

(more...)

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

(Continuing to rant)

Look, Syth, let's just assume you don't know what love is. We can accept that. You know what FAMILY is, or maybe that's yet another thing Cani haven't taught you yet. You have built up a Clan, for pete sakes. You can't just go "Nope, I'm sorry. You all go to the five winds now, I've changed my mind." Like it or not, they're YOUR Family now. Even the ones that betrayed you (which goes off topic onto a different discussion). You have a responsibility to at least help keep them safe. Which is what Castle Wrong is.

If you are indeed as wealthy as 1/12th you said you were, and I suspect you might, then it should be no problem to erect another Manor. Heck, you ALREADY have another manor you can move into. There is no reason you can't just be a philanthropist and give the Traff Castle Wrong to maintain and be safe at, while perusing your other lifestyle somewhere else.

While you might hide from it, you are the Clan Chief. When you speak, generally people respect you, and try to help out and do what they can, because that is what Clan's do. Even if you don't really get along at times. Clans are simple and complex at the same time, but Clan is Clan, and you've made yours. Don't forsake them just because you are unsure of yourself!

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

(Darn no Editiing Fearture)

Change "It has all sorts of evil connotations" with the following "It has all sorts of evil connotations (that don't really exist)..."

[dracosphynx.livejournal.com]

It doesn't strike me that you're a libertine and lust after all eight species, unless you've suddenly developed a fondness for Khytsoyis and Sleeth!

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

Well, who wouldn't want to at least experiment with a Khytsoyis?

[xolo.livejournal.com]

Those clubs make one nervous...

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

They are long blunt objects with smooth round ends... sounds like fun to me. :D

[xolo.livejournal.com]

But three of them! And seldom wielded gently...

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

I think that's the best part. :D

[mmsword.livejournal.com]

O Sythyry, as a partially properly educated wizard you should know that you should instead of discarding data to fit a theory, discard a theory to fit the data. Personal experimentation and past examples show outliers in your categories.

Personally I'd redefine the categories as such:


Cisaffectionate: Capable of lusting for and loving their own species exclusively.

Transaffectionate: Capable of lusting for and loving any species.

Libertine: Can lust for any of the eight species; incapable of love.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

See my reply for my take on this! I do believe that the terms have to be broadened to make a more universal net, though.

[kobolds.livejournal.com]

Right Sythers, the first think you need to do is put this out of your mind and invent a spell which will allow us monsters to reach between universes and slap you for being such a silly little lizard.

Though I suspect you'll not do that, so I'm going to move on to answering your questions / providing advice whether you want it or not.

1. Yes, you are probably cisaffectionate and also transaffection at the same time.

Have you ever considered that what is really attractive about a person is what they mean to you, their personality and all the non-physical elements to a person?

In our world there is only the one species, but because of the way our society has developed your species gap is the same (though inversed)as our gender gap. While we've largely come to grips with same sex relationships, we're only just starting to adjust to the idea that it doesn't have to be same sex or other sex. You've got an advantage here, social trends change over time, and as a Zi-Ri you are going to be around and influential for a lot of time. Start showing the Tree that it's okay to be both, and in a generation or two that will become quite happily accepted, or at the very least, thought about seriously.

2. You're still transaffectionate, so keep maintaining Castle Wrong, also you're still wrong in plenty of ways. Apart from anything else they are you're friends and clients. If you're really unsure, I suggest you go ask them.

3. I do not believe so. Most of your closest friends probably just care that you get a Doom free relationship that you enjoy, no matter who it is. Granted Iconnu will probably take offence that you have damaged the traff spirit, but I'm pretty sure he won't hold it against you, especially if you sleep with him to show you are still traff even if you also like Zi-Ri.

4. You should go apologise to Tarfnie, regardless of what you decide about yourself. You shouldn't lose a very good friend over who they love. Only allowing yourself to be friends with wrongfolk just makes you all seem unaproachable, and hinders your cause.

5. I doubt you will find that many traff folk who are interested in all seven other species by equal amount. I also think traff should not exclude one's own species from that list, after all if a rassimel were to date cani and orren as much as they dated rassimel would they not be traff?

6. It was Mynthë. No matter what the shape she took, it was still Mynthë. Was it not the same way between you and Thennel some time ago, you always being in Orren form? He still liked you for your personality and mind.

7. No doubt you were horny, you've just broken up with Thennel after he re-awoke your sex drive. And yes you'd probably have gone for an Orren faster but they wouldn't have had Saza's personality, which seems to be what swung you over to enjoying yourself with zie.

Once again, which god is it that demands that cisaffection and transaffection be entirely mutually exclusive is a fundamental force of your universe? And if there is no such requirement for it to be that way, why must you think of it as such?

8. Stop worrying, enjoy yourslef.

9. You're so worried to get involved with your own clients because you are a very moral lizard who likes to make life difficult for himself.

10. There are Zi-Ri cities?

11. No.

12. How many years did you go without a partner? I don't think you are a total slut. You can't be and not have bedded Inconnu.

[galis.livejournal.com]

If there is nothing wrong with being traff (which you believe, correct?) then surely there is nothing wrong with being cis either. Still, I think you might be overlooking a few possibilities.

First, that they aren't really categorizable into traff, cis, libertine, but instead a matter of individual preference? Presumably not every traff is attracted to the same set of species the same; you show a preference for orren, for instance. You seem rather judgemental about libertines, when you know yourself traff people don't act the way cis people claim, and that prefering other species doesn't make them incapable of love or steady relationships. Have you entertained the idea that libertines are in theory not much different from traff, and that you've simply been unlucky and only met libertines who are also jerks? After all, being a jerk can be universal.

Second, given your general lack of regular contact with zi ri, perhaps you simply are not restricted by species in whom you are attracted to? You've not exactly had a lot of chances to have fun with and be attracted to other zi ri, after all. So it might be easy to confuse "likes everyone but hasn't met enough zi ri" for "only likes non zi ri".

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

From what I have figured, as of *now*, you have acted in a way that is orrencanizirigormorrorrassimelherethroyaffectioante. That's 6/8 species, including your own, excluding sleeth and khytsoyis. I would say you are interested in love and lust with all of those species, so far.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Basically, the idea is this. Rather than worry about an EXCLUSIVE definition, one that also defines what you are NOT, worry about an 'opt in' definition, where you simply says what you ARE and doesn't automatically imply that it can't change or is set in stone, and simply describes the behaviour and interests that seem to take place... that's why I like my system...

[elorie.livejournal.com]

I think you and the rest of them were jerks to Tarfnie, and should attempt to make amends. I also think it would be dishonorable to abandon Castle Wrong and the wrongfolk.

When in doubt, look at the facts and what leads you to treat other people well. When theories conflict with that, the theories need to be revised.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Oh! And Sythyry, don't you DARE Host a Wenezza cookie party. That is *NOT* The sort of person you are, NOR is it the sort of person you should be! You have more respect for yourself than that, and so do we!

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Okay, sythyry, you like the "Three Options" theoretical framework, right? Than all you need to do is broaden the three terms so fewer things fall between the cracks! I did say this earlier, but I am reiterating it now, this would be a more inclusive "three options" theoretical framework for sapients:

One term for "likes love and romantic relationships with their own species to the exclusion of all other options"
One term for "doesn't like romantic relationships and love in general, this term doesn't say anything about lust or play"
One term for "likes love and romantic relationships, but in any way that doesn't fall under 'just their own species to the exclusion of all else'"

Now, wouldn't that be a useful "keep it down to three useful options" theoretical framework?

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

And I would maybe make it clear that none of these terms should probably say anything about such things as transient, fickle, and ephemeral as simple lust alone -- what matters for most folk is relationships, right?

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

If there's one thing we can learn from this world that we can be absolutely certain applies to your world, Sythyry, it's not the specific possible mental states for primes. *My* species has a totally messed up sexuality -- there's a default 'likes people of the same species and the opposite sex' but then people graft on all kinds of custom exceptions or changes until we end up with the consistency of a tribe of scawn.

It's possible that primes are the same was, which is what everyone's assuming, but you're not going to figure that out through thought experiments or anecdotal evidence. If you want a definitive answer you're going to have to identify the cause and source of transaffection (is it a difference of the body? the mind? the spirit?), and see how many possible states it has.

Then, as an afterthought, you can check and see which state you're in.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Yes, that does seem like an ultimate way to explain it. Figure out what the actual source differences are, how many ways that state or those states can manifest, and then check that for everyone you know. Personally, I wouldn't go that far, down that path madness lies, I'm sure...

[brynndragon.livejournal.com]

Is there a saying about Zi Ri able to remember what happened a thousand years ago but not last week? Because you seem to have already completely forgotten the amount of emotional and logistical Doom you were willing to go through for Thennel, including the break-up that was not because you weren't attracted to him but because you didn't want to deal with his rather dubious ethics around how he was (failing at) dealing with being traff. That wasn't some years ago where memories of the more physical end of things might have become fuzzy, that was sufficiently recently that you can go examine those feelings pretty darn thoroughly and see that yes, you are indeed still attracted to Orren. So that should settle that matter pretty solidly, unless people regularly go about switching between cissy and traff (in which case you could spontaneously switch back to traff just as quickly).

Whether or not you're also attracted to Zi Ri is a different issue; I would actually doubt those feelings more strongly, especially since in this particular case you are dealing with a Zi Ri wizard who might or might not be capable of using Mentador to bring about an outcome zie would prefer.

[xolo.livejournal.com]

The Reproof: You're looking at this wrong. The name of a set (such as 'Zi-Ri' or 'cissie') describes the members of the set. All members of that set share the quality that defines the set, yet the quality that defines the set does not impose a limit on non-defining qualities. E.g., there are red Zi Ri and blue Zi Ri, and both are Zi Ri - colour isn't part of the definition of the set.

Your operational definitions for cisaffectionate and transaffectionate aren't mutually exclusive. There's no reason you (or anyone else) can't be both, or one or the other on a sliding scale depending on context.

The Caveat: In our world we have no actual proof that anyone's soul is substantially different than anyone else's, and they were presumably all made by the same deity. (We have no actual proof of a soul or deity, for that matter...) It's probably rather easier for me than for you to dismiss differences of the body as irrelevant, given that all of us are quite similar inside, as best we can tell.

The Reproach: I think you treated Tarfnie shabbily. I have no doubt regrettable deeds took place on both sides, but ultimately you're the Duke of the Castle, and should keep order, and ensure that your dependents are treated fairly. Allowing someone to be harassed for his choice of lover isn't fair treatment.

The Counsel: Worry more about people, worry less about categories. Apologize to Tarfnie, if he can be located.

[alex-muridae.livejournal.com]

My dear immortal lizard, as I was too distracted to make my comments immediately, I shall tackle the topic under future entries.

However, having said that, let me be the first (near) Orren to point out that you are cute when wild-rushing. :3