(no subject)

[sythyry]

In Which Esory Bites My Head Off [21 Thory 4261]

Esory was browsing through my journal in Enchantments class, as she does now and then. After class, I found this note tucked in it.

Sythyry ...

It's not just that Ilottat is treating you badly -- though he is. You are not treating him very well, either. He's said that he wants to keep this a secret, yet here you are writing about it in your journal and you know that I've read it on occassion, as well as Floosh, not to mention a veritable ocean of monsters and-who-knows-who else. You've told six? eight? people directly. Even when Anoof warned you of the smell issue, you forgot.

You don't want to keep it a secret, and Ilottat desperately does. Please ... do try to talk to him. Find out why it's so important that he would be goofy enough as to pretend not to recognize you in public. Perhaps if you understood better what the consequences of this tryst are for him personally, it would be easier for you to accept his wishes.

Or to break it off.

I know, it's none of my business. And I ought to sit by and watch the two of you tear each other apart and politely say nothing while I pretend not to notice but ...

Sorry.

This is utterly ridiculous in every sentence of course! Ilottat isn't treating me badly. I'm not treating him badly. I have only mentioned the matter to a small number of very trustworthy people. And the monsters don't count -- if they're real at all (are you?) they can hardly be considered reliable witnesses in a court of law. (Unless there are courts of law in monster-branch somewhere, I suppose.)

And I've been careful with scents except the one day, and that only because I got back so very late at night.

And, well, I did ask him, last night. I didn't have time to explain it here because, well, it was awfully late, non-bathing-allowed sort of late.

And we're not tearing each other apart. At all. Tearing clothes off is another matter!

The Explanation of The Extreme Secrecy

Me:"Why, O why, must you be so secret about our involvement, that you cannot so much as recognize me in public?"

Ilottat:"I said I was sorry about that." (He had, too.)

I spent a bit of time comforting him, there.

Me:"But why is it such at very very touchy matter for you?"

Ilottat:"My father would be contrarie, displeased. Very displeased."

Me:"Even with a Zi Ri? We're not the least honored of species."

Ilottat:"Especially with a Zi Ri."

Me:"How, especially?"

Ilottat:"Because, well, he is concerned with the honorem, the family name. In the history books, and the archivia, the records. You will remember it forever!"

Me:"I will remember you fondly as my first true love!"

We paused briefly for some activities traditional when someone says something like that.

Me:"Still, I must ask ... he sent you off to school in Vheshrame, having warned you particularly against Zi Ri? Hezimikkinen is hardly in the habit of seducing Academy students!"

Ilottat:"Well, there's a little more of a reason..."

With much earflattening, he showed me a book entitled Langorous Lizards in Love. I looked at a few of the illustrations ... the book was mostly illustrations. Almost any other time I would have been embarrassed. As it was, I just leafed through a bit. "Ooh, we should try that one!"

Ilottat:"My father discovered me as an adolescent, yn darllen, that is, reading this book, and, well, doing something else as well..." He indicated just what by a gesture.

Me:"Ooh, that looks hard!" It did, though not in the "difficult" sense. "Could I help you with it?" It turned out that I could. This interrupted the conversation for some time.

Ilottat:"So he thought that I might like Zi Ri."

Me:"Well, I hope he was right!"

Ilottat:"Upote, maepote! No!"

Me:"I hope you like me at least!"

Ilottat:"Well, yes, I do seem to. But, well, I'm sure I wouldn't so much as edrych, look at another Zi Ri."

Me:"How about other Orren?"

Ilottat:"Well, um, I might have a relationship with another Orren. To please my father, if nothing else. He does pay my addicion, my bills."

Since his bills are rather high even in months when he's not seducing me at Darraden's, I can see that keeping his father happy has some importance.

Me:"Well, if you marry another Orren, perhaps you and me and they could ... well ... I do like Orren."

In some settings it's hard to say that you're transaffectionate. Having your tail curled snugly around an intimate bit of a member-of-another-species makes it much easier. I recommend this to everyone with suitably flexible tails.

Um, that's me and Sleeth, I think, and Sleeth are all transaffectionate sluts anyways and don't care who thinks what of them.

(And no, Zi Ri aren't all transaffectionate sluts. I am quite fussy and extremely picky about my lovers! Lover, rather!)

Ilottat:"Sythyry!"

Me:"What?"

Ilottat:"Please ... the whole topic is a bit umkippen, upsetting to me. Could we talk about something else instead?"

We found something else. No, it wasn't that, or at least, it wasn't entirely that. He painted the inside of my wings with brilliant crimson and viridian stripes, and caught a picture of me decorated that way, with my intimate organs in a configuation suitable to the nature of our relationship.

And that's really why I forgot to wash up at home -- because I had already washed up at Ilottat's. Except that, well, there was a certain amount of physical affection after the washing.

No, I don't entirely believe that he's not attracted to Zi Ri.

Anyways, I think Esory has entirely the wrong of it!

Comments

[sianmink.livejournal.com]

Esory might not be entirely off, here..

Its a troublesome relationship, at best.

of course, as long as you're getting what you like out of it.. but if you arent careful, the ending could be decidedly un-graceful!

[lysana.livejournal.com]

I agree with this. You're taking a risk every time you speak of Ilottat to others. I worry it will come back to hurt you both.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I'm quite sure it's perfectly safe!

[Bard pretends innocence]

[lysana.livejournal.com]

I am quite sure you, sweet little Zi Ri, need to look up the word "limerence" in a monster-to-Zi Ri dictionary. Your enthusiasm and infatuation looks to be running head-first into Ilottat's fears. As redbird said, it is obvious neither of you are intentionally looking to hurt each other. Several of us monsters fear it will happen anyway, and while I realize you're not sure we exist, have we not given sound advice in the past? Please, do be more careful.

[kistaro]

Illotat sounds a lot like me trying, for years, to convince myself that I'm not actually attracted to others of the same sex (something, in monster society, considered in a rather similar light to transaffection in yours), and I'm absolutely perfectly heterosexual. I've since come to peace with bisexuality.

Illotat is in denial out of fear. This is identical to the situation I was in. I slowly slipped out of it on my own, but what would have helped was someone to talk me through it. Guess what position you have, with respect to Illotat, just gotten nominated for?

It is, of course, entirely your decision whether or not to take the advice of a monster, but I would urge you to take things slowly. Illotat even getting intimate with you is most assuredly a huge step for him; don't frighten him away. He's terrified of how others would react, and that's both normal and well-founded. He just needs to accept it in himself. It's safer- it is, in my experience, easier to hide something from others when one is not hiding it from onesself.

I would suggest being patient with Illotat. This has to be a lot harder for him than you seem to be perceiving. His fear is well-founded, as far as my limited knowledge of your world can determine; it is completely analogous to my hiding my sexuality and religious belief system for exactly the same reasons. But Illotat can't change this about himself, I suspect, and he'd be well-advised to come to peace with his tendencies.

By the same token, for his sake, be more discreet. You have told more people than you intended to. While telling a few hundred monsters in another plane of existence about this is safe, telling just one person who lives near the situation is not. But beyond that, consider how it is for Illotat- it is, I suspect, his worst fear for his transaffectionate tendencies to be discovered. Can you not understand a bit of worry on his part if you're taking actions that increase the probability- and directly increase the number of people aware of such tendencies?

Perhaps a bit more discresion is warranted.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

[OOC: I am glad that that some people are getting Ilottat's position. And sorry if Sythyry's being hideously annoying today.]

I'm not actually attracted to others of the same sex

This is hideously perplexing, and not just because I'm the only sex of Zi Ri there is. There's no problem to being interested in other sorts of monsters, as long as you're interested in the right sex of them? Regardless of, oh, social station, or age? What about species of monster with incompatible systems of gender? If we had that rule ... um ... either Ilottat would be home free, or he'd be just where he is now, I suppose.


I slowly slipped out of it on my own, but what would have helped was someone to talk me through it. Guess what position you have, with respect to Illotat, just gotten nominated for?

I think I am doing an excellent job of it so far!

[Bard respectfully disagrees. -bb]

[(Anonymous)]

There's no problem to being interested in other sorts of monsters, as long as you're interested in the right sex of them? Regardless of, oh, social station, or age? What about species of monster with incompatible systems of gender?

Yeah. Freakin' furries. :)

[kistaro]

[[OOC: Isn't it fun to write for something you completely disagree with? Also, with Sythyry's remarks about questioning if we exist, you might want to check out the now-complete webcomic One Over Zero. You've reminded me of it. It started out extremely lame, but picked up somewhere around strip 300; it wound up surprisingly philosophical. Among other things, it questioned the nature of fiction as the characters contemplated their own lack of reality. A fictional character questioning the reality of zir readers fits in very nicely...]]

I never claimed that sex was the only factor, merely one of the ones that crossing the line will get you beaten for. (At least where I live.) Social station is frowned upon, and getting involved with someone much younger or older than you also is, and there are legal threshholds where it will get you arrested and tracked for life. (This is the only criterion I've listed so far that I strongly support.)

Keep in mind the sharp differences of our worlds. You come from a world with nine distinct prime species- and impressive menagerie. Although I am considered a monster by your standards, I'm of this planet's equivalent to the sole prime species. (As socially accepted by us, anyway. I personally suspect at least two other species have achieved human levels of intelligence, but most humans are egotistical and don't like to entertain the thought.) There are no other prime species to consider. The closest thing to transaffectionate tendencies would be bestiality. (Socially, transaffection is much more parallel to homosexuality. [OOC: Imagine that.] ) That would be sexual activity with anything of any other species; this is considered an abomination, combining "unnatural lust" (as written in the state laws of Misourri) with rape (an animal cannot consent). It's another one of those crimes that gets one arrested and tracked for life- if caught.

If you're not confused enough yet, just ask more questions. I'll do what I can to ensure that you are appropriately befuddled.

With all due respect, I'm not entirely sure you're doing the best possible job to help Illotat through his confusion. As I stated before: discretion. You're acting out his worst fears even more than you might realize, and with the new information you've recieved- that he's married- the temptation is to pull away worse.

While it's a logical urge, an abrupt rejection would hardly help Illotat, who already appears to be under enough stress. I'm not sure what would be the correct course of action, but abandoning Illotat- especially angrily- would probably be the worst one.

Good luck with that...

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm real. And we f'ing told you so.

That's all I'm gonna say about it.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

What did you tell me?

[collie13.livejournal.com]

Mmm, sounds like you're in a bit of denial, Sythyry. What makes you think your few "very trustworthy people" don't also know other "very trustworthy people" whom they might wish to tell -- who will doubtless know other "very trustworthy people," and so on? How do you know you're the only person who talks to us monsters? ;)

More importantly, how would you feel if Illotat made one of your deepest secrets public, and you lost your stipend entirely because of it?

[deliriouskitten.livejournal.com]

I am as real as is permitted! I defy you to disprove my existance!

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I decline! I prefer to engage in correspondance with people who actually exist!

[greenreaper.livejournal.com]

We don't have to be real in a court of law. Just the court of public opinion, which as I'm sure you're aware from your classes is far less lenient and willing to rely on the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence - perhaps just a monster's say-so. Do you really want the histories of your life to begin thusly?

Zir first lover, the unwise Illotat, had a weakness for Zi-ri and the laviscious Sythyry took advantage of this to seduce him and thereby blacken his family name. Outraged, Illotat's father disowned him and he was cast out of the Academy. Poor and destitute, Illotat eventually took his own life by throwing himself off the Tree, falling upon the head spikes of a winged monster of the Void - a most gruesome end. Sythyry cared not . . .

[greenreaper.livejournal.com]

*plots to take copies of the photos*

[devon-alek.livejournal.com]

I'm as real as I can convince myself of, having disproved to myself the existence of "reality".

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Now how did you do that? And, for that matter, why did you do that?

[devon-alek.livejournal.com]

The why should be a great deal easier to answer than the how. 10 years ago, I had to travel to part of our monster world I had not been to before, because my father was required to make a business move. Since I was under the age or species generally considers adult (18), and had not made other arrangements I had to go. The location itself was not so bad, but the school I had to attend was. As has been mentioned in previous comments to your journal, whether there are gods in our universe is matter of some debate.

In my childhood, I had abadoned the form of religion the people at this school had taken to extremes . . . the "I'm right, you're wrong, and no evidence to the contrary will change that" attitude. So every day I was engaged in religious debates with people trying to convert me back to the faith I had left when I was about 12. So to endure my earthly Hell, I took to my command of logic. It didn't make me any happier, but it kept me from contemplating suicide.

Mentador in our world works something like this: someone tells you to believe something. If you don't, they hurt you or ridicule you, and try to get you to believe again. Repeat ad nauseum. Only a few in our world have strong enough wills to resist this toture.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Suicide rarely improves matters, I understand. I am glad you did not!

Mentador in our world works something like this

I may, perhaps, not visit your world any time soon, I'm afraid.

[devon-alek.livejournal.com]

True, especially in a world where we are only guaranteed one life. Religions of our world abound with theories of what happens to the soul after death, but as with much of our world, this is still a matter of debate.

But suicide in our world is considered selfish on the part of the person who chooses that course. And not without due cause.

As far as we know, only our planet in our universe supports life as we know it. Well, at least broadly. We have found bacteria from other celestial bodies. And one of our Durudor materials, a metal called Iridium, only comes from outside our world.

Sythyry, there is a saying on our world "never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Apparently a saying we need to review every 5 or 10 years (which seems to be the intervals we have wars over nothing over).

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

We're not guaranteed any more than one either. But one has to be rather extreme to completely offend one's creator god.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that comment about life, bacteria, and iridium.

Or, for that matter, about the stupid people. Here, it takes only a single stupid person to do a great deal of damage.

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

Not to butt into this particular thread, but I'm not sure what exactly this has to do with solipsism?

[redbird]

You and Ilottat aren't trying to treat each other badly. That's clear.

But Esory is right: we monsters aren't in touch with anyone in Vheshrame except yourself, so we're not a problem as witnesses or gossips. But six or eight or ten primes know about your relationship, even if we can hope that nobody both smelled you the other night and cared enough to connect that with Ilottat.

You're in love, you want to tell the world. That's entirely normal and healthy. But it's difficult, when one's lover wants nobody to know. My only suggestion would be--keep telling another world, that is, us monsters; be more careful about who in Vheshrame sees your journal; and, similarly, if you're going to tell your friends how wonderful Ilottat is, don't do it in a public place. Do it in your own room, or their homes, and ask them to keep it quiet.

There are no guarantees, even so, but that might help.

[petersheil.livejournal.com]

A great monster in the past said "I think therefore I am" ... so as long as I keep on thinking I will exist. Some think that it is actually more accurate to say that I exist as long as I think I exist, but that's a fine distinction which I can't be bothered to think about right now as I have to go and visit my mother-in-law and give seasonal gifts and eat seasonal food.

Take care little one
peter monster

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Ah -- you know you exist, but I must admit that there is some chance that, oh, you are not a sort of creature who goes and visits your mother-in-law and gives seasonal gifts and eats seasonal food, but, instead, a sort of creature who goes and visits the innocent and restores their long-dead ancestors to a hideous shambling parody of life and gives seasonal injuries and eats their eyes and livers.

Not that I particularly suspect you of this. But it is a bit hard to tell from here.

[petersheil.livejournal.com]

I have never knowingly eaten the liver of anyone I know personally, so that must make me nice eh?

I'm not a "restoring the dead" monster. I do use spells for various things and indeed in our world we have computer programs [I guess this translates into something like automatic machine?] which tell us if the spell is correct ... they are called spell checkers [this should make other monsters reading this smile because of a double meaning in our language here].

Do you have snow in your world? [Frozen particles of water that fall in soft flakes but can later be compressed inot balls for throwing at your friends as a cheery seasonal greeting]

Peace
peter monster

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Well, better than if you had done.

[Bard grins -bb]

We have snow. It shows up in two seasons: most winters, and cold Surprise.

[perlandria.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, pictures.
*facepalm*

[collie13.livejournal.com]

Naughty ones, even! Illotat is going to be in SO much trouble when those are discovered in his room by snooping Orren working for his dad! ;)

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't believe they did that.

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

That is so Esory!

[kensaro.livejournal.com]

and Sleeth are all transaffectionate sluts anyways and don't care who thinks what of them.

As a monster who fairly closely resembles sleeth in many ways, I can only say: Yay!

[esory.livejournal.com]

Sythyry, I did not bite --

Oh, fine. Fine. What do I and a dozen monsters know about anything, anyway? He's wonderful, you're wonderful, everything's wonderful, sorry I wrote a word.

Sorry I cared at all.

...

At least you talked to him about it. I hope that helps.