sythyry: (Default)
[personal profile] sythyry

I do not approve of the following decision! But I got outvoted. The wrongfolk have, wrongly, decided that everyone gets to make up their own form of marriage and to have it proclaimed a legal form of marriage by the legeriat.

This takes something that I think is perfectly reasonable -- everyone gets to make up their own marriage vows -- and generalizes it to madness. So, for example, Phaniet and Este want to make up an Binary-Open Marriage, which is a pretty conventional couple marriage, except that they can take lovers but they have to do it together. Arfaen, for her part, has decided that she likes having a tofyof, and wants something like that allowed by law too.

We're going to have a great big book listing all the currently available varieties of marriage. We already have the book itself -- a massive ledger book bound in green leather -- and I did manage to get some agreement that, when the book is full, we stop this game.

Anyhow, I'm worried about the game. It needs some rules, or someone's going to get hurt. Here are some rules I am thinking about, or that various of our more enthusiastic Rassimel and mock-Rassimel have discussed.

  1. Marriages concern emotional and sexual bonds, long-term life plans, joint living situations, rights of kinship, and selected property matters. (Rationale: We probably have left some things off this list. But we don't want, say, two people who ought to be entering a business arrangement to phrase it as a marriage.)
  2. A form of marriage must concern the attachments of a collection of consenting adults (called "spouses"). The collection of spouses is fixed at the time of the marriage.
  3. The spouses must know, understand, and agree to the terms of the marriage before they can enter into it. (Rationale: You can't, say, marry the Duke of Vheshrame in a form marriage that gives you half his wealth, unless the Duke wants to.)
  4. A spouse may unilaterally proclaim divorce, dissolving the whole marriage unless the terms of the marriage explain what will happen in the case of divorces. (Rationale: Divorce seems essential in various situations. Dissolving the whole marriage may seem rather drastic, but the alternative is chaos -- e.g., if five overzealous Orren have put together an intricate arrangement heavily based on the numerology of 5, and one leaves, there'll be no sensible way to interpret the remaining arrangement for 4. But a standard Cani marriage of 13 adults will turn into a standard Cani marriage of 12 in the natural way.)
  5. Marriage vows never supercede other legal requirements. Prior marriage vows have precedence over newer ones. (Rationale: This system is going to be ridiculously unstable, but this rule makes it a touch more stable. Besides, if you don't like the prior vows, you can destroy that marriage and make one that fits your needs.)
    1. Anyhow ... any ideas, suggestions, demands, proclamations, assertions, distractions, uglifications, or derisions?

Date: 2011-08-23 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xolo.livejournal.com
Is there any compelling reason why the state needs to formally recognize marriages? Inheritance, joint property, and powers of attorney are about all that come to mind for me, and there are more direct, less messy ways of dealing with those.

Date: 2011-08-23 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sythyry.livejournal.com
There is a certain surprising sense of legitimacy and respect from official recognition. I became Arfaen's tofyof -- her concubine, in about as low-honor a situation as I could imagine -- and that under some rather unfortunate circumstances. I still felt that Hanija smiled upon our relationship -- or at least frowned less -- than Vheshrame ever did on my marriage-in-all-but-name to Mynthë.

Which is the reason that I find myself compelled to pay attention to this discussion at all. It's not a compelling reason to have marriages in the first place -- but given that they're around and most people find them important, we (and by "we" I exclude myself) seem obligated to play games with the concept.

Date: 2011-08-24 01:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stormydragon.livejournal.com
In my mind Vheshrame was far better about your relationship. It never had official approval, but it at least left you free to have the relationship you actually wanted. Hanija essentially offered you a devil's bargain: we'll approve your fling as long as you announce before the entire community that this really just about sex and that you don't actually love each other.

Quite frankly, you ought to be ashamed that you're so eager for the approval of others that you prefer that.

Date: 2011-08-24 02:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sythyry.livejournal.com
That's only a partial view of the bargain. Plenty of tofyofs renew their contracts time after time -- and plenty of married people (especially Orren) get divorced.

Date: 2011-08-24 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stormydragon.livejournal.com
Yes, but it's still operating under the legal fiction that they're really just a long term prostitute. I'm not saying there's not love in a lot of tofyof relationships, but the approval is still based on a public oath that the relationship is something else.

There is something viciously cruel about forcing two lovers to deny their love in order to get legal protection. And indeed, we saw on your trip what the price Hanija expects from someone who publicly declares that it's possible for people of two different species to love each other consensually and as equals--you were nearly beaten to death for that claim.

Meanwhile, Veshrame, while not officially endorsing your relationship, has let you claim that to anyone you like and allowed you huge latitude to set up a space where you can live how you like. Do you think Hanija would allow something like Castle Wrong within its domain?

I think you do your home a great disservice.

Profile

sythyry: (Default)
sythyry

January 2013

S M T W T F S
  12345
678 9101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Mar. 3rd, 2026 11:11 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios