(no subject)

[sythyry]

[This isn't about real-life gay marriage. The issues, traditions, physical conditions, and theology are all very different. Sythyry wants to discuss this, though I told zir it was potentially flammible. -bb]

And then there's the perplexing and troublesome question, of what sort of marriages to allow in the city.

Let me cite the best case for restricting marriage to same-species that I can. Each species has its own standard and stereotypical pattern of marriage. Cani marry in packs of a dozen or so. Herethroy, with three sexes and unequal numbers, have an intricate arrangement of intersecting triads. Rassimel tend to find a single soulmate, sometimes two, and mate for life. Orren are usually married to two or three people at a time, with a divorce or new marriage every year or two. Zi Ri establish long-term occasional liaisons with a few conspecifics: one year together, eight years apart, say. Gormoror marry in violent heterosexual pairs. Sleeth mate with whom they feel like, and do not marry. Khtsoyis do something gross, I'm sure.

Anyhow -- given this -- how could a Rassimel marry an Orren, say? If the marriage were in Rassimel style, the Orren would not be able to endure it for long. If it were in Orren style, the Rassimel would soon be plunged into despair at the inevitable breakup.

To which there are, I think, two responses:

1. That is only true in stereotype. Some Cani certainly prefer pack marriages. Some -- my own keeper Arfaen -- never found that comfortable, and prefer an Orrenish or (if I must be honest) even a Sleethish style of living. Phaniet has a Rassimel-style [quasi]marriage with Este and seems to prosper in it, though I think Este the Rassimel is more comfortable with the small-for-Cani size of it.

   So, should a Cani with a Sleethish marriage style --- or one not described by any prime species --- be compelled to marry as a Cani? It will not work well!

2. So what? Even if it were true -- true generally, or true in a particular instance --- why should people not be allowed to do things against their nature in this regard? Even things that are likely to end up badly? We do not, for example, forbid the fighting of duels --- we do not forbid gambling, or drinking to the point of sickness and inevitable hangover --- we do not forbid the making of investments that might fail --- we do not forbid a thousand other ways in which a person might risk a greater or lesser disaster. Marriage is a voluntary act (pace the arranged marriages common in certain social strata, which are, in any case, always cisaffectionate). If it goes bad, the victims are the ones who chose it in the first place. So by what rationality do we forbid this one out of the many?

Anyhow, the argument about whether to allow cross-species marriages is more or less irrelevant. If the wrongfolk found a city, cross-species marriages will be allowed in it, and we shall see how that works.

The practical question is, what sort of laws should govern marriages? Ideally the same laws would apply to huge Cani pack marriages and Rassimel couples, to crystalline Herethroy and fluid Orren matters --- and of course to all the combinations.

And, there is the question of tofyofs and prostitutes. I certainly don't want the part of the tofyof laws that forbid all body-play outside of a marriage or tofitude. On the other hand, it is quite likely that the city will be a tourist spot, and that a significant part (let us be realistic) of the tourism will be the sex trade -- probably more of it cross-species than usual. I want to have some laws that protect the workers in that profession. What should those laws be?

Comments

[shurhaian.livejournal.com]

I would recommend, especially concerning the sex trade rather than marriages per se, taking a stance of protecting rather than restricting. Yes, protecting one person is restricting another, but in general, it's better to have laws against assault and protect the well-being of bystanders than it is to leave it open and protect the freedoms of the violent and chaotic. A turn of phrase here is "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".

Rather than restricting the structure of marriages, try to focus on preventing possible abuse of them. Ensure that recorded marriages are entered into with the consent of all those involved (leaving aside arranged marriages, again). Ensure that anyone who is being treated unfairly has legal recourse about it - though, given the very differing family customs among the prime species, it's difficult to pin down exactly what should be considered automatically abusive.

The above suggestion of leaving prostitution to a Guild is not an unsound one. The sex trade being what it is, some additional restrictions may need to apply - but ensure that they have a region of reasonable size where they are permitted to ply their trade; don't effectively forbid them by preventing them from advertising themselves. Maybe put restrictions on your eventual city guard that compel them to respond to complaints of assault from people engaged in their trade, even if that trade puts them at higher risk - that may work for other trades, but the sex trade in particular is very dangerous for leaving its practitioners defenseless, and they are often marginalized, considered to have placed themselves in danger of their own free will just by virtue of being what they are.

Actually, aside from any particulars regarding where they can and cannot work, I think the most fair way to govern the sex trade is to have it be treated like any other guild - but do so [i]rigorously[/i], ensuring that they won't be ignored for who they are (or, at least, that such willful ignorance will have harsh consequences if brought to light).

I don't know to what degree you could interfere in Guild doings, but if possible, making it an easy Guild to get into may be best. There are probably going to be people turning tricks for a quick bit of amber anyway; better to make sure they can get into the guild than to have them face ruinous punishments atop what may have already been dire circumstances. (Comparing to Treverre: more like the Hosteler's Guild than the Guilds of skilled trades.)

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

Inheritance is another big subject of law where marriage can tie in. If someone's married to another person, what happens to their property if they die? What if they have children? What if they are murdered by their spouse, can the spouse legally claim their property?

Then there's the 'got X pregnant, are they obligated to get married' kind of thing.