[Theory Thursday #3]

[sythyry]

Mirrored from Sythyry.

[Theory Thursday #3]

Let me try a simple definition, and see how it works. beetiger more or less proposed this one first, I believe.

One is cisaffectionate if one is successful at ignoring or at least concealing any romantic interest one has in members of other species. One is transaffectionate otherwise.

1. I am traff according to this definition — even if I have a substantial involvement with Saza.
2. Traff-folk, by this definition, will tend to experience the social consequences of their orientation, and will thus need Castle Wrong or the equivalent.

Other concerns certainly arise. One may be a libertine, perhaps defined as one who seeks pleasure rather than deep relationship.

As an interesting other scale, consider Romantic Breadth. Let us divide adult primes into categories based on species, gender, coloration, social status, and so forth — the exact categorization does not matter, so long as it is detailed. One’s romantic breadth is the fraction of categories that one is romantically interested in.

So — a pure transaffectionate person, interested in anyone of another species, such as Inconnu claims to be, has a romantic breadth of 7/8. A pure cisaffectionate would have one of 1/8. One who was fussier about gender, coloration, and the like would have a smaller one — down to “vanishingly small” as the degree of specificity increased. A pure homo- or heterosexual would have a romantic breadth of 1/2. And so forth. I don’t know what to do with this concept, but I am amused by a theoretical scale — and one with a fundamentally natural definition, and, indeed, more measurable than most — that doesn’t have “cissy” and “traff” as the endpoints. [And Bard is equally amused by one that doesn't distinguish between heterosexual and homosexual. -bb]

Incidentally, I don’t know that I really get to define transaffection myself. I do get to decide who I want in Castle Wrong. Society at large gets to decide who they punish for romantics complexities.

I admit to getting a bit bored with the theory of transaffection. I would like to either get some more practice at it, or do an exercise in the theory of magic, fairly soon. Not that the two are interchangeable.

Comments

[delight-in.livejournal.com]

That sounds simple and the Romantic Breadth is elegant I think Gran-Gran was 1/8th by that scale. Just like a cissy!

... that doesn't seem right somehow.

Are you still worried that you're just trying to come up with a model that doesn't make you a loveless libertine?

[bloofox.livejournal.com]

No reeason affective practic and magical theory can't combine!

[redbird]

One thing I like about beetiger's proposed definition is that people can slide between the two categories. The easy limiting case is that everyone is born cis, by this definition, no matter how they live as adults. (This is epistemologically weird, but it fits how most people look at the matter: cis is the default, and I expect that if you somehow took a survey, you would get a lot of primes saying that of course everyone is born cis. Not all, but many.) But many a person who counts as "cis" could be re-labeled traff if the wrong person found out about an affair, in addition to those whose interests or behavior become clearer as they mature. Conversely, someone labeled traff might be able to successfully become "cis" by moving, alone, to another city or branch where they had no reputation.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

I like that definition! And yes, you should go practice some affection with primes and such, figure out what you enjoy! =D

I read somewhere that zi ri and sleeth tend to get along fairly well, sometimes?

[shurhaian.livejournal.com]

It may depend on how Sleeth is the Sleeth, and how Zi Ri is the Zi Ri!

They do have some commonalities - independence, self-sufficiency, self-worth. Even in their enjoyment of a friendly/affectionate caress. Though not only do some of those qualities also make it perhaps a poor idea to be too close together for too long(clash of egos?), Sleeth are generally very much focused on the present, whereas Zi Ri tend to have more thoughts about the past and future, so there'd likely be some conflicts there.

But in the short term, they can allegedly enjoy each other on a superficial basis, at least...

[kris-schnee.livejournal.com]

Zi Ri and Orren too. Other primes see a Zi Ri and go, "Wow, an ancient and mighty sorceror! I bow to your authority!" Orren see a Zi Ri and go, "Hi! Wanna collect glirries with me?"

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

It's more, "Wow, an ancient and mighty sorcerer! We can use someone like that!" But the point is well taken.

Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

>>One is cisaffectionate if one is successful at ignoring or at least concealing any romantic interest one has in members of other species. One is transaffectionate otherwise.<<

For the practical and political aspects concerning you, that's a good functional definition.

As for what the definitions are? You get one vote. So does everyone else who's interested. But you are 1) somewhat wealthy, 2) rather powerful, and 3) immortal. All of those expand the impact of your vote: more people will be exposed to it and are more likely to be influenced by it. So it is good that you are giving the matter some thought, not only in what you choose, but why you choose it.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

I must admit that I, also, find that both romance and magic alleviate boredom.

Further Musings

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

I find that most of my society does not recognize sex/sexual or romantic contact as a legitimate need. Similarly, they don't seem to recognize that alleviating boredom is a legitimate need. What do you find where you're at? Does it vary more by species or by society?

Re: Further Musings

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Oh, my. By species, I guess, and of course individuals and individual places may vary a great deal. Cani do recognize sexual and romantic contact (as a subset of social contact, which is crucial for them). Gormoror probably recognize alleviating bordom is a need. Herethroy don't recognize either. Khtsoyis I have no idea about. Rassimel and Orren recognize alleviating boredom, for opposite reasons. Sleeth don't care about the legitimacy of needs. Zi Ri recognize both as needs, but think you should be patient about them.

Re: Further Musings

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

for opposite reasons?

Re: Further Musings

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Oh -- Rassimel tend to have one consuming interest for life; Orren get a new one every day. (Stereotypically.) But for both species, the consuming interest is the stuff of life, and boredom is quite abhorrent.

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

So libertine or not would be Romantic Depth? I'm not sure there's as natural of a way to quantify it, so maybe not. Percentage chance that you'll remain faithful to any given lover? Or maybe the half-life of your relationships?

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

That is an elegant way of thinking about it, but I don't know how to quantify it either.

[kris-schnee.livejournal.com]

Try using twenty-sided dice!

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, I don't think we want to get Sythyry rolling various polyhedral dice as random number generators and thinking that the numbers that come up on them have various impact on, well, anything. Zie might cause the world to have a divide by zero problem!

[kris-schnee.livejournal.com]

But wouldn't critical successes and failures describe many events in zir life?

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Bad Kris! Bad Kris! You aren't heeellpppinnnggg...

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Shouldn't the romantic breadth factors be weighted by the size of the category? So for example a traff gorromor would be romantic cally broader than a tradd Cani

Of course, that makes a traff Zi Ri the romantically broadest traditional category.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I decided not to do it that way because it makes it harder to compute. Also it varies from place to place, sometimes getting nonsensical. In Daukrhame, where there were no Zi Ri, was Ilottat -- a gentleman fixated on Zi Ri to the point of disaster -- not interested in Zi Ri?

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Also, it would mean the only difference between a traff Zi ri and a libertine zi ri would be a rounding error. ;>

[redbird]

I like that concept of romantic breadth.

Also, I don't know about Primes, but most monsters probably think they are romantically broader than they are, because they don't even think about certain people as possibilities enough to reject them. That's especially true of categories like coloration, age, and social status: someone who is interested only people of (close to) their own coloration, age, and/or status, or a socially standard variation on that, is likely not even to think "hm, everyone I've ever been involved with, or asked out, is of my own color/my own class/within five years of my age" because that's what's expected.

I expect there are categories in my own preferences that I am similarly overlooking.

[nekomavin.livejournal.com]

Why aren't the theory of transaffection and magic interchangeable?

Imagine the practical experiments you could set up with liberal use of your Cloak of Another God enchantments... One interesting question would be to what extent a given prime's interest in other primes is due to their own form. Conversely, you could try transforming a prime you are/are not attracted to, to see whether your attraction varies depending on the species they're transformed into.

Even more fun if you're running the experiments double-blind, where both subjects are not told the original species of the other...

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Oh, the first one has been done. One cissy Orren wouldn't touch me when I was in Orren shape. A traff and species-dysphoric Herethroy was much more flexible.