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[sythyry]

On the Futility of Primes and Monsters Living Together (Nendrai Version) [14 Hispis 4385]

Kazrie quirked her ears at Vae and the spatulas, as the taptet ran around trying to put the bowls and cups and plates onto level spots on the inistella's scale. "You are, if I am not mistake, travelling with the healer and zir entourage...?"

Vae looked a bit cornered. (It's never wise to corner a nendrai.) "The Strayway is my home for the year and the next year, yes."

"So, is it not the case that you, yourself, are living with some primes?"

Vae grudgingly admitted that she was.

"I am no Cani to instantly understand all the fine points of the social dynamics, but you seem a bit protective of your companions, and they seem comfortable in your presence. One might even be so bold as to describe your relationship as 'apparently amicable'," said the doomed philosopher.

"The yes, the yes, that is all true," said Vae.

"So, one might be inclined to speculate that you, yourself, are an instance of precisely the sort of social organization that I am investigating."

Vae turned one of the spatulas into an inside-out capybara, speared it on a claw, and took a bite. "Not further should you investigate. The social organization is a terrible social organization."

Kazrie shuddered at the nendrai's snack. "Yet it is the way you organize your current society."

Vae bit off half the capybara's brain. "The saving-from-me we are giving to Vheshrame, as a gift. The cursings and hideous transformations I perform will all be on the wrongfolk. They are saving their home city from my depredations and my wickednesses, by luring me away with them."

Arvaky asked, "Wrongfolk?"

I answered, "Many of us are from an estate in Vheshrame called 'Castle Wrong'. Hence, wrongfolk."

Arvaky nodded sagely. "There must be a story there."

"There is," said Jyondre, "but perhaps the should not interrupt the battle of nendrai and philosopher."

Kazrie was well ready for the battle. "Well, I should imagine that if you live for any great length of time with primes, you will come to regard them as friends and allies. Muot -- the nycathath who is your voluntary hostage -- found that he was perfectly able to take us under his protection, so long as there were a suitable number of non-primes as well."

Vae took another bite of capybara, and turned the rest of it into a false memory of being tortured with red-hot copper needles by puppets. "And think you that every monster is like a nycathath? The friends and allies I travel with: yet I cannot protect them from the vilest danger they face. The I cannot even understand that I have been a danger to them, until after the injuries I wreck and torments I inflict have been repaired. The better protection for them would be if they were not my friends and allies; I might be less inspired to be helpful to them." One of the perdithornes got entangled in the memory, and was quite perplexed.

I explained, "Vae is happy to use her mighty magic to help primes in need. She is unable to tell what the need is, or whether she has been helpful or harmful. That must not reflect poorly on her general intellect and morality, which are quite worthy. Gnarn made her to be troublesome, and troublesome she is, despite herself."

Kazrie flicked her tailtip. "Accomodations must be made for the wickedness of the creator gods. Indeed, on the back of Doöaru, we have made some: no Cani live here, for perdithorne cannot endure the presence of Cani."

Vae snapped, "Not a bit should I live with primes, then, for I cannot trust myself around primes."

"You simply need to figure out what sort of mental tricks to do to be safe around them. Perhaps, remember to never help anyone without consulting an expert first," said Kazrie. In a calm and reasonable voice, considering that her tail had gone quite bottlebrushy.

"She can't remember that either. She is a well-designed monster," I said.

"The magic earmuffs that keep certain words from my ears help somewhat," Vae added. "Not always! The poor Quendry-child got his hideous magnification just the other day. The earmuffs knew what he meant by saying 'when I get bigger', but I was unable to know."

"Well, perhaps you are a special case," admitted Kazrie. "Though, even for a special case, you do seem to be an excellent illustration of my point. But special cases are, by their very nature, special. Most nonprimes are common cases."

"The nonprimes were built to be a doom and a trouble on the primes! The special cases are we all, each and every one. The dangers I bring include blatant ones, for I am a vast and huge monster. The dangers that taptet bring are all more subtle! The potions they brew are appealing but perilous. The small and enslavable servants, also, are what taptet appear to be, but they crave freedom and will take the most alarming risks to acquire it. The slower perils for you are taptet, but they are still perils."

"Nonsense! The taptet who dwell on Doöaru are friends and respected companions!" snapped Arvaky.

Grinwipey looked as innocent as a Khtsoyis can. "So how come you're the ones sittin' your grombuses on the comfy chairs stuffin' twiffish fruit treats into your yawning esophaguses, an' they're the ones carryin' the comfy chairs 'n bringin' the fruit treats?"

"Because we're the ones who were very sick an hour ago," snapped Kazrie.

"Yeah? Usually you wait on them with two hands and both noober-lapping feet, right?" said Grinwipey with a smirk. The Rassimel philosophers looked a bit embarrassed, and the taptet looked a bit annoyed.

"The venom-spiked fist of the gods is the fist that you are begging to have rammed into your faces and your bellies," said Vae. "The Strayway too -- but at least the crew of the Strayway know that they are asking."

"And wearing protective gear," I added, because I am proud of the protective gear, even if it doesn't work perfectly.

Comments

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

This is just fascinating. I am amused that the philosopher has implied The Conversation, a tactic tried for many decades now with indifferent success. It's promising that some people do manage to live in mixed company, but the obstacles pointed out are very real. Which rather raises the question ... what is there to be learned by living in a world where the gods deliberately designed some species to be superior and others inferior, with strong barriers to prevent comfortable merging of prime and nonprime cultures? The only thing I can immediately think of as a solidly proven benefit is that any time you go from a world where X has strong factors against to a world where X does not, suddenly doing X seems quite easy to you even if the people around you think it's hard.

Re: Thoughts

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

what is there to be learned by living in a world where the gods deliberately designed some species to be superior and others inferior, with strong barriers to prevent comfortable merging of prime and nonprime cultures?

The very fact that you can do it. That you can do it despite all the barriers thrown in your way. That you can do it despite the differences between you. That you have the sheer, unmitigated churfed scruffles to do it despite the promise of imminent doom from the deities.

That you can stand up to your creators and say, "Thanks for giving birth to us, but we're not kids anymore. We'll take care of things from here on out, but you're quite welcome to give advice when we ask for it."

THAT is what you learn.

Re: Thoughts

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately we are obliged to add, "But we do require that you continue to maintain the existence of life, mind, temperature, space, time, flora, fauna, and the other items -- admittedly, items which may be considered to be luxuries in some regards -- which we have come to expect from a generally orderly universe." When our gods are particularly irritated with us, they simply withdraw from our immediate vicinity. Once in a while that favors the mortal -- do you know the story, Flokin and the Baker? I am not fully aware of how to treat the discontinuation of the entire universe in the manner of Maruhan. Such an admission makes the case rather weaker.

But I don't think Kazrie is going quite that far. I must admire her churfed scruffles for going as far as she is.

(Actually, what are scruffles? I may be obliged, as a warm traff person, to admire them in any case.)

Hm. We are not kids, perhaps, but we are still clients. Whom the gods control as effectively as I control my clients, like Grinwipey or Rheng, perhaps.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

>>We are not kids, perhaps, but we are still clients. Whom the gods control as effectively as I control my clients, like Grinwipey or Rheng, perhaps. <<

Which means you can at least tell them where to go churf their scruffles, if they cause you too much distress.

It is, however, very hard to rebel effectively against those upon whom your life depends entirely, when you have little or no ability to move safely outside their range.

Re: Thoughts

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Which means you can at least tell them where to go churf their scruffles, if they cause you too much distress.

Which will work just fine unless they actually go and do it.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

0_o

Right ... let's not mention this to Flokin or "Here" or ...

Re: Thoughts

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

[Too late! Flokin's response is, "I don't actually have any scruffles." -bb]

Re: Thoughts

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

What was Here's?

Re: Thoughts

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

[Blank incomprehension as to why I thought he might care what primes thought. -bb]

Re: Thoughts

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

Still my favorite.

Re: Thoughts

[rowyn]

when you have little or no ability to move safely outside their range.

It's not impossible to move safely outside their range. Vae's relocated at least one sapient to a universe outside the bailiwick of the World Tree's gods.

Re: Thoughts

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

Actually, what are scruffles? I may be obliged, as a warm traff person, to admire them in any case.

Ah, I must admit I am not entirely sure?

I absconded the phrase from your records of one of Grinwipey's more..."colorful" conversations with Muot. Among we monsters, we have certain phrases that describe a way of passing time that, while pleasant, are considered impolite in a social situation. Unless that situation is either intimate or considerably relaxed.

When Grinwipey indicated that he hadn't been "churfing their scruffles", I merely transposed the possible situations.

As for my "scruffles", I think such an admiration should be...*ahem*...discrete. Preferrably with plenty of time to conduct a proper examination. As for what Grinwipey might consider "scruffles"?

Somehow, I don't think even the most stout-hearted and determined researcher would have the constitution to conduct even a cursory glance at such things.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

That sounds very insightful, yes.

Re: Thoughts

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

[I agree! Though I find the World Tree gods less intimidating than Sythyry does. -bb]

Re: Thoughts

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

[Of course as the author, you have complete power over them, unlike Sythyry]

Re: Thoughts

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

[Not any more! -bb]

Re: Thoughts

[zeeth_kyrah]

Children grow.

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Well, the solution's obvious then. If you want primes and monsters to live together, and don't want to call down the wrath of the gods, you have to do it in another universe.

Oooh, or make a great prime/monster nation that will cause trouble for the *rest* of prime civilization. That might be enough to satisfy the gods' doomlust. I bet that's what the philosophers are really after.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Maybe the Primes just need to kill their gods.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Then they wouldnt have any spells any more. Also, there wouldnt be any sun any more, etc. etc...

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Well, they'd replace them with new less sadistic gods then.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Do you know where I could hire some?

And how I could pay them, for that matter?

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Have you tried craigslist?

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

[Bard just posted in the SF Bay Area, gigs offered section. We will see what comes of it.]

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

I would love a link to that!

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

And the ad is apparently against the Craigslist terms of service. I dunno why, I haven't used Craigslist before.

The inhabitants of a particular alternate universe have decided that their
gods are too cruel (and, as their main contact here, I will admit that their
gods certainly are cruel). They need some alternate deities. Particular needs
are deities of the phenomena necessary for life: flesh, air, water, plants,
fire, magic, space, time, and so forth. The main requirement is that you be
physically capable of doing the work. Relocation to the alternate universe is
only necessary if it is a necessary part of your doing the work. They are
interested in people capable of doing one aspect of reality, not necessarily
all aspects in a single person; but the gig will only happen if they can find
people who collectively cover all aspects.

*laughs*

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

That's a shame. It would have been great to see the responses that resulted.

Re: *laughs*

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I tried again, in the "Volunteers" section, with something a bit more oblique. I don't want to spam CraigsList, but feel free to post an ad or two too.

Re: *laughs*

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Okay so what is the link to THIS one?

[kris-schnee.livejournal.com]

I like this. I might steal the idea.

There was some old novel called "Magic Kingdom For Sale," with a similar premise, where a fantasy land recruited an Earth businessman as their new king/destined hero.

[mmsword.livejournal.com]

What about ... Um.. you know, that guy. The one with pleasure palace? I mean, beyond being a complete fraud, he seems a decent chap.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Uhm. Less sadistic gods. Um. Do you happen to know any that are willing to take the job? Any at all? Or any being that can easily BECOME a god that is willing to take that responsiblity and won't end up sadistic? That is capable of doing all that work??

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Well, if you repeat the cycle a few times, the survivors will get the message. ;>

[zeeth_kyrah]

Well, the real question is what everyone is supposed to learn from all this. If there's nothing to learn, then what's the point, beyond entertainment?

[waywind.livejournal.com]

Sounds like another iteration of Animal Farm to me.

[kris-schnee.livejournal.com]

That's the basis of a different anthro fantasy/SF setting I like:
http://www.fur.com/~ollie/rym3.html [main page]
http://kschnee.xepher.net/rym.htm [my collected links from it]

[rowyn]

I bet that's what the philosophers are really after.

If, by "are really after", you mean "what will most likely result from their efforts", then I agree completely!

[winterbeast.livejournal.com]

The Gods themselves might stop by to explain why they thought this was a bad idea...

[waywind.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that gods of the World Tree have generally made choices that would produce events that entertain them, and that the purpose of suffering and conflict in the World Tree is to produce a good Story by, for example, spurring adventurers to go on quests for valuable herbs that can only be found in the dangerous Verticals. This is entirely my own opinion, though, so far as I know. Perhaps we could consider that the incompatibility with Primes, inherent to the design of certain monsters, could have been intended by the gods not to prevent Primes and monsters from allying, but instead to make a stimulating challenge for the Primes and monsters to eventually overcome? Maybe the gods set up this orderly system to eagerly wait and see how its users will solve its puzzles, explore it, and even hack it. If that is the case, Primes and monsters living together is complicated to achieve, but not blasphemous, and will not run the risk of being struck down by the gods. The gods might only interfere with actions that would be life-threatening to the very physics of the World.

I can see how this would be a valuable subject for philosophers to explore, because it would reveal much about the intentions of the gods and the potentials of the civilizations. The many risks of the experiment are worthwhile for such grand answers.