(no subject)

[sythyry]

I've been thinking about a few things on your journal, and have a few
more comments and a few questions. I think I know why many of the
offworlders who replied to you in the past called you male. It seems to
be because, (and others may not agree with me in this way), that we see
your personality as masculine -- as in, representating many qualities
that we find more often in the males of our species. What exactly do you
know about how the gender roles and personalities are 'supposed' to be
among the prime species? You mentioned some of these for Herethroy, but
I'm curious about these for other Primes. How culturally ingrained are
these behaviors? Do you think other primes might end up calling, say, zi
ri, who only have one sex, masculine or femenine, based on how they act?
What about using magic to permanantly change one's gender? I think you
might've talked about this before, but has this successfully been done?
Has there been a specific spell or ritual developed for it?

Well ... nobody could possibly mistake me for being male, female, or co-lover.  Zi Ri aren't those, and can't be. It'd be easier to mistake me for a housecat.

Herethroy females are supposed to be strong and stolid and bland.  Herethroy co-lovers are supposed to be sweet and maternal and sexy, which is why Dustweed wants to be one..  Herethroy males are sort of in-between, but stuck up.   Gormoror males are supposed to be less civilized than Gormoror females.    Those are the main ones. 

I've talked before about gender-changing magic, I think, at least about Dustweed.

Also, based on the grammatical rules for the language you speak, what
would more specific sexual orientations be called, if you had to make up
an appropriate word for them in your language?

I refuse to do this exercise, since someone is translating everything anyways.  I will do a different one. I will give the word for each of these concepts. 

For example, how about these:

"One who prefers all prime species as romantic partners equally"

Libertine

"One for whom which species of prime a romantic partner is holds no
particular importance at all"

Libertine without a sense of judgement.

"One who prefers romantic partners inside their own species, but is open
relationships with those inside their own species"

Libertine trying to pretend to be conventional.

"One who prefers romantic partners with those outside their own species,
but not exclusively, and is open to relationships with those inside their
own species"

Traff who refuses to understand that zie is traff.

"One who prefers not to have romantic partners at all"

Asexual

"One who prefers romantic partners outside of prime species (!!)" ----
Would that one be a type of crime? How major of a crime would that be?

Bestialist. I don't know if it's a crime, technically, in Vheshrame, but it is a social suicide.

"One who prefers romantic partners based on their minds, be they same
species, other primes, or other non-prime sentients"

Bestialist.

"One who prefers monsters as romantic partners"

Bestialist.  I don't see how this is different form the second-to-previous one.

Are there words in other major prime languages for these varieties of
sexual orientation that you know of?

No.  My boyfriend doesn't know them either.

Maybe you could look them up?

I presume some Rassimel has assembled a Complete Catalog of Perverts. I must admit to disinterest in precisely how that Rassimel classifies me.

Perhaps another prime language would be better suited to coming up with
words for these options? Do you know of one?

I generally leave such things to my boyfriend, who, conveniently, is a linguist.

Also, back to the "my world, your world" thing we were talking about
earlier, we have figured out certain ways of manipulating air to make our
versions of skyships go very fast. If you plan on being an enchanter
sometime, and doing Big Enchantments, you might want to hear about this.
I'm also saying this because I have heard that certain properties of air
that exist on our world do not exist on your world, and I was curious
more about what you know on the subject, "how air tends to act, if left
to its own, and how moving mechanical objects can interact with air" Now,
if you are interested in this, or can direct me to some scholar on your
world (who I maybe could speak to with your journal??) who studies these
sorts of things? Where could I find the type of scholar who studies how
objects interact with each other when non-magical forces are applied to
them (like pushing something, or gravity and things like that)? Figuring
out which of the 'laws' of physics that we have correspond with those on
your world would be fascinating to me, and is something that I would like
to pursue. Alas, I can't go to your world and test things myself. *sigh*

Well, I can't claim to be a great expert in air.  I don't even like to fly that much.  I would also rather that scholars on my world not find out about my journal; I am somewhat embarrassed that I showed it to Esory, even.  Natural philosophers are not so rare here, and I am sure that they know something about the natural philosphies of air and weather -- there are classes about those in the course catalog.  I am ignorant of such things. I hope to stay that way.

[Briefly: a good fraction of the Newtonian physics of motion applies to World Tree. Air is a notable exception.  For example, primes believe (based on their available measurements) that the air pressure does not vary with height up and down the World Tree -- a good thing, especially if the Tree is infinitely tall.   The weather on the world-branches is heavily managed by a vast horde of air elementals, who are serious dangers for airships flying too high or too fast.  Killing them off would (1) wreck weather patterns, and (2) seriously piss off an inescapable Noun God.]

Oh, one last thing. I was looking at your recent conversations with
Ilottat, and, I was wondering, is there a city-state or area of prime
territory that you know of where trans relationships are not culturally
frowned-upon?

Why, yes, to a significant extent, and not very far away at that.. For nobility and near-nobility, at least.

       
        Maybe a place where they are encouraged?

Not that.   At least, less discouraged than in most places.

In my world, people of similar cultural viewpoints often gather in cities that begin
to serve as cultural centers for people with those viewpoints. Surely if
you and Ilottat could go to a place that is... liberal about
transaffectionate relationships, a place where he could be openly traff
with you, it might help lower some of his fears of being known as traff,
and some of his insecurities about the subject?

He did so, in fact, to the extent that one can in Ketheria.  Vheshrame has a branch-wide reputation as having sexually adventurous nobility, and, indeed, upper-class commoners.  Tethezai would not be so bold in Daukhrame, for example ... and neither, I think, would I.  You can take the Orren out of Daukhrame, but taking Daukrhame out of the Orren is harder.

Comments

[goodluckfox.livejournal.com]

This is the coolest (hope your translator spell handles that, Sythery) journal entry I've read in a while. "Libertine" and "Libertine with a sense of judgement" indeed! Whee!

If I could address your correspondant with regards to air travel:

Yeah, I've spent a LOT of time trying to figure out what is possible on the World Tree due to their funky physics. It'll just about make you pull your hair out. Since "chemistry" per se doesn't work there the way it does here, well understood things such as combustion don't necessarily work the same way there as they do here except on the macro scale. That is to say, alcohol and wood will both burn, but the high speed chemical reactions that drive our own engines don't necessarily function. One could imagine Flokin saying "Look, campfires burn. But I am *not* going fiddle with 8 explosions taking place 3000 times per minute!" It might just annoy him. I don't want to annoy Flokin. :) Further, we don't know if their gas laws are anything like ours. Smoke may only rise because it is the Will of Flokin, not because warm gas is less dense than cool gas. If air pressure doesn't change with depth, I don't see how density can either. Ask me how birds can fly... I don't know, unless it's again, "The Will of ".

Once I wrote a story snippet about what happened when some non-Primes on a lower branch found a loophole that didn't limit airspeed in powered flight. The gods thought terminal velocity was as fast as anything would ever travel through the air, so there was no upper limit to speeds under power. "Here" got pissy about something moving through space at speeds faster than he liked, so the Air god added air resistance so that it applied appropriately at ALL speeds... with rather disastrous results for the craft and its single passneger (Mach 20 instantly hitting the equivalent of sea-level air density... yikes... lost the left wing, went into a ballistic tumble and disintegrated... written a month or two before we lost Columbia).

Between their physics and the 7+12 apparently having it in for them, it looks unlikely that they'll ever be able to reach the kind of speeds and efficiencies that we enjoy, unless the gods want to allow it, or at least stop actively interfering.

How does that sound Sythery? I know it's not your field, but do you think it has the ring of truth? I wish I could come for a visit, but alas, all we monsters get to do is play pretend. :(

Loxley

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't want to personally annoy Flokin, no, nor any of the other 7+12 gods.

Though I doubt that eight explosions 3000/minute would annoy it -- they seem more likely to make it enthusiastic and helpful. An enthusiastic and helpful Flokin is far more dangerous than an annoyed Flokin. You might be able to talk your way out of an annoyed Flokin.

I do know how I can fly, or somewhat; I make free use of my organs of levitation. It's not easy to fly without that.

I do not know how fast one must go to get the attention of "Here", nor what he might do if his attention were acquired ... Locador, like Airador, isn't at all a speciality of mine yet. Ask me something routine about illusions or flesh, please, I hate feeling like such a dunce to monsters.

[OOC: exactly how much the gods intervene personally for physical stuff, or even magical stuff, is very much GM-dependent. That story is certainly compatible with World Tree theology.]

[mmsword.livejournal.com]

Actually I was interested in Sustanoc myself. Seeing as you're kinda born into that specalitiy, I was wondering if you knew some practical spells using it creativly.

Also I was wondering, why is it that a Ziri can hover but a Cloak of another god user can not when they turn into one?

[kensaro.livejournal.com]

One would think that if air pressure doesn't change with height, that air would have no mass, or is simply not susceptible to gravity (which would be a rather neat way around the problem, and also avoid the question if water pressure increases with depth...)

I'd hate to be the first one to try out a parachute on the World Tree though, not in the last place because my altimeter wouldn't work....

[justicezero.livejournal.com]

It could also be that Air is not Matter, per se, and not bound by the same set of rules as Matter would be. It could be that the "Air" that Sythyry is familiar with is simply a different ruleset of properties attributed to the state we know of as "Vacuum", for instance. This is, however, neither here nor there - we might have better luck asking Strenata, assuming that her Airador flying spell indicates some significant study of Airador, but I doubt it is worth the social call for such a trivial-sounding question.
As you have so politely asked for such a question, though, do illusions create "illusion matter", create a continuing empty effect which simulates the incidental effects of matter, or alter the perceptions of those viewing the illusion to believe that empty space contains matter? That is, does your writing implement create ink made of Illusion, leave an effect on the paper which makes the paper appear to be colored with ink, or leave the paper untouched but make those viewing it see the writing on the paper through other means? Or does it function in some other manner which I have not mentioned here?

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

[Bard answers, which is easier than trying to explain to Sythyry. Air is a substance, not a vacuum. Evidence includes: it can carry scents (see various posts about incense, for example), and sounds (which are manipulable by Airador magic). Many creatures, including Sythyry, fly in whole or in part by flapping wings or gliding. There's weather, and wind. -bb]

[Illusidor magic modifies sense impressions (which seem thus to be things in their own right). The pen changes the color of the paper, quite literally and directly. The paper is not untouched. The new color is a real color -- in some worlds, illusions meddle with the viewer's mind and cannot be seen by cameras, but a camera on the World Tree would see the illusion too. Does that answer your question? -bb]

[mufi.livejournal.com]

Illusidor is just considered vaguely disreputable.

Mentador (which does meddle with the mind..) is considered wholly evil..

Of course, if you know enough Mentador (and perhaps some Sustenoc), you could make some rather interesting illusions - or even apparent (or true) realities. Just as long as nobody manages to resist...

[Ru De Su Me Co 15: You are not hungry. You will not get hungry. You have no inclination to eat..]

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

So, Illusion is one of the elements that reality consists of -- the paper had an illusidor component even before you wrote on it with the pen as much as it had an herbador or corpador component.

Which is why Destroc Illusidor can make things invisible.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Exactly!

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

What a fascinating idea!

Husserl and Merleau-Ponty just exploded in their graves.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Who?

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

A couple of quite-dead scholars from a world rather remote from your own. Much of their work (the latter's more extensively than the former's) dealt with how one should think of their perceptions, more specifically in that perceptions (the very stuff of Illusidor) are all one has to rely on as pertains to the world, and whether one can meaningfully discuss a given object outside of perception, ie. is there some immutable "real" object transcendent of the one that you perceive with (fallible) senses. It would seem that on the World Tree, one's perceptions might actually be integral to the object itself... which would take their "phenomenology" from philosophical speculation straight to the realm of "commonplace fact."

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

Keeping in mind that my area of interest has traditionally been Locador, I think this idea is positively fascinating.

[niss-the-ai.livejournal.com]

Maybe Yotogi is referring to the esteemed scholars Plato, Descartes, and Keanu? It's especially interesting to bring up their idea because they suggest that people could live in some sort of simulated world and never know it. It'd be interesting to hear Birkozon the Mentador God's thoughts on this issue.

So, in what sense is Accanax Gnarn's "younger brother?"

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I suppose that's possible in principle. I wouldn't be surprised if Birkozon had tried it. I have not read much of his autobiography -- it's a bit on the egotistical side, as well as monotonous -- and do not know his opinion on it.

Gnarn calls him that, and he calls her "older sister". I, um, shall ask them for more details the next time I am paying them a pleasant social call of a sort where asking such questions is appropriate.

[kensaro.livejournal.com]

This makes me think Ilusidor is poorly named, it should be more something like Perceptidor.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

After Yylhauntra's whole lifetime -- and Glikkonen -- I don't really know what you mean by creatively.

I think that fake Zi Ri don't know how to use the levitation organs as well as real ones.