Economics of Eitharheinen [19 Lage 4385]

[sythyry]

Mirrored from Sythyry.

Eitharheinen (my ~mother~, and Hezimikkinen’s ~father~, among other things) lives in a curved horn tower, remarkably like a horn of a bull that has been expanded by very potent Corpador magic to a size in which Herethroy — not merely Zi Ri, but Herethroy — can live in it as a many-story tower. Eitharheinen likes to give this impression. It is somewhat accurate.

Me: “Hallo, ~mother~. Might we stay here for the night? I have a bit of a story to tell.”

Eitharheinen: “O Herethroy minstrel, I am afraid you have the advantage of me … actually, you’re not a Herethroy minstrel. You’re shapeshifted. What are you really?”

Me: “I’m Sythyry” I broke the Shape of Another God that was making me look so buggy.

Eitharheinen: “By the glittering of Hren Tzen’s eyes! Sythyry, coming to visit me! Come in, come in!”

After a few embraces and pleasantries, zie noted the sponge-wrapped body.

Eitharheinen: “And who is this?”

Me: “Nangbang, of the Temple of the Dark Trinity in Oorah Thrassen. He’s a bit space-sick; not used to extensive teleporting.”

Eitharheinen: “Ah. He does not look well.”

Me: “In my opinion as a master-healer…” (If your parent eternally doubts your competence, as mine does, it never hurts to remind zir of your collection of guild-masterships. Not that that makes up for never graduating from the Academy.) “… he looks worse than he is. Have you tincture of elstromizarde at hand?”

Eitharheinen: “I suspect not, but I shall send for the village healer, who probably will. In the meantime, the servants shall put him to bed, and we shall talk.”

In fact, there was some at hand; it is used to treat a certain common but annoying fungal infestation of the Herethroy carapace, and Eitharheinen is served mainly by Herethroy. So I gave Nangbang a suitable dose, and told some Herethroy servants to put him into a bed with as many heavy blankets as could be managed, and a heavy log on either side of him for extra solidity. And if dry beans or grain could be sewn in sacks of five or ten pounds, several of those should be set spaced six inches apart along his body. The pressure would do him good — in effect, somatically reminding him that he is no longer being teleported around. (Yes, it helps even if the patient is being teleported around, bed and logs and beanbags and all.)

Financial Advice of Eitharheinen

I explained my doom of the last few months to ~mother~. There was no real alternative to doing so. Zie hears about such things sooner or later, and best if I get to explain my side of them first.

Eitharheinen: “So, your accountant embezzled the bank account containing your entire fortune, and scattered it up and down the main trunk?”

Me: “Yes.”

Eitharheinen: “I have some well-intended parental advice, which you are compelled by filial piety and/or guestly piety to listen to and nod your head about as if you agree.”

Me: “I shall then listen and nod!”

Eitharheinen: “First of all, why on wood do you have your money in a bank?”

Me: “It is the Bank of Teleporting Hexagons — the very bank which you arranged to give me my stipend when I first went to Vheshrame. I have kept the same accounts; they work well.”

Eitharheinen: “Sythyry, are you foolish, ignorant, or simply lazy?”

Me: “I am too foolish and lazy to manage more than one of those! And too ignorant to think of the other two!”

Eitharheinen: “Don’t attempt such bons mots; you are not very good at it. Banks are well-suited for the transmission of money from here to there, for the provision of loans and mortgages, and for various acts of commerce and financial arrangement. Such as, say, giving a detailed stipend to one’s beloved but extremely young and devastatingly naïve offspring. They are not a place to keep your money for centuries on end! You are aware that they charge fees for holding and protecting money?”

Me: “Well, of course I am.”

Eitharheinen: “You are aware, then, than you have been paying a great deal for the privilege of putting your money in a place from which it can be fairly easily embezzled?”

Me: “Um, I suppose so…”

Eitharheinen: “There are a pawful of sensible things to do with large amounts of money. Spend them on things of immediate use or pleasure! Purchase or commission arts, fountains, buildings, public monuments, public festivals! But — and this above all — purchase land! Estates outside of the city! Lots and homes inside the city! Land remains valuable forever; land cannot be stolen or nibbled away; land can provide income of its own! The Zi Ri who has less than half of zir hoard in land is an utter fool!”

Me: “That would be me, then.”

Eitharheinen: “That would be you, my imprudent and immoral child. Don’t expect me to give you cley every time you’re out!” [or: "Don't expect me to pull your chestnuts out of the fire every time!", though that metaphor doesn't work very well for fireproof Zi Ri. -bb]

Me: “You have not done! I have not asked! I have salvaged my own hoard, less fees and bribes.”

Eitharheinen: “True. This time. If it had been in land, there would have been no need to salvage it.”

Me: “Hmph. I do, in fact, get land! I have recently acquired a very nice mansion in Eigrach!” Which I have not seen twice, and do not actually want, but never mind that.

Eitharheinen: “Somewhere to move to, to escape the excellent parental advice?”

Me: “No, but sometime Eigrach will be an old and mighty city, and I shall still have a very nice — if very old-fashioned — mansion there.”

Eitharheinen: “Excellent! You should be doing more of that!”

(I probably could, at that… I could make a wide tour of the lower branches, and hint that cities could have a great Ketherian wizard move there for a minor bribe of real estate. In case my reputation ever gets too good despite the transaffection, I suppose.)

Comments

[rowyn]

I hope that, should you follow your ~mother's~ advice, World Tree doesn't get afflicted with the same real-estate-based Doom that my world has been recently suffering. c.c

[sebkha.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised that the conventional wisdom for safe long-term investments on the World Tree isn't spell grafts. Nigh-impossible to steal, and capable of providing an income.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

Often true! ~Mother~ thinks I will use them for adventuring. Zie does not approve of that aspect of my career.

[dracosphynx.livejournal.com]

I can see the potentials of this. No doubt Sythyry will manage to buy real estate like the DOOM farm where DOOM is grown, the DOOM workshop where artisians work at creating fine DOOM, the DOOM mines where workers dig into the Tree and bring out crystalized chunks of DOOM, and a lake populated by young, nubile Orren of DOOM.

Hmm...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

Eitharheinen has a point about banks being less than secure, and land being harder to steal. Keeping a substantial sum liquid for expected and unexpected expenses does make sense, but only so far. Turning some of it into land, or perhaps into useful spells, artifacts, or other purchases might be more useful.

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

Well, if you OWN the land, then at least you always have a place to live and farm and discourage monsters from having picnics.

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

Well, you have to admit, that makes sense from your races point of view. I mean, if you can live forever, why choose the profession that is known to have the least likely retirement from? Adventures tend to expire, not retire. :)

Not that I want to discourage you from doom or anything. Doom seems to be your companion, anyway. Even the God of Destruction is impressed by how Doom loves you.

Re: Hmm...

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Land is pretty easy to steal, though -- zir new estate in Eigrach was stolen from its previous owner in order to hand it over to zir.

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

Curious. It is our experience, as a capitalist based society, that money in bank returns interest - rather than being charged to store money in a bank, one would receive some small amount of money for the bank's privilege of holding the money. This is achieved through the bank then lending the money to various enterprises at greater interest rates, in which the bank thus earns a profit off of encouraging the growth of various enterprises.

Rather than land, in effect, Sythyry might invest in lend.

The problem is in determining who is a trustworthy investment in which to entrust a small portion of one's money and to have it be returned with interest in the future. Some small portion of money would be defaulted - the enterprise has failed and cannot repay its debts. The trick is to make the profitable enterprises cover the unprofitable ones.

Land can be stolen in a fashion - if the title to the land can be appropriated elsewise, for instance - and it can be reduced in value - for instance, if what would normally be a valuable residential area somehow becomes situated next to a tannery with its noisome stinks, thereby severely reducing the enthusiasm of people for dwelling there.

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Maybe zie could buy the right to a large stretch of the verticals, and with Vae's help pacify and industrialize the monsters there?

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Banks giving interest on deposits is a relatively recent phenomenon. You need to have investment be profitable enough that banks compete with each other for the right to hold your money. Prime civilization is balkanized and guild-ridden enough that conditions might not be right for that.

[tuftears.livejournal.com]

What about investing in merchant trading expeditions? Though in the end it comes down to 'do you trust someone to invest your money for you.'

When you get down to it, if you own a village or some such which pays you taxes, that's a form of investment too.

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

You know... after reading that a second time... I think your mother really likes you, even if she doesn't approve of your love life. She wants you to go throw parties with the money she gives you. I wish my mother would have done that... Well... maybe she could have... but I mean, that is a neat mom...

Re: Hmm...

[rowyn]

I was thinking that, too. Land is hard to steal, but the titles and deeds to land tend to be not-too-difficult to remove. If Sythyry had possessed a fortune in real estate, Zascalle could have arranged for the titles to be shifted to her name, then diverted their income to her. And then sold or mortgaged the properties for ready cash when she wanted to make her getaway.

Not that I'm disputing the value of buying real estate in general. It's a pretty reasonable sort of investment. But the threat of fraud is going to remain as long as World Tree society will commonly assume that one's accountant has the equivalent of unlimited power-of-attorney over all one's holdings.

[brynndragon.livejournal.com]

Being rich enough to buy outright, combined with being long-lived enough to outlast any bubble, makes it a much less problematic venture for a wizardly Zi-Ri than us poor monsters.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

You should totally just invest in profitable ventures, companies and businesses... go for profitable ventures that will make you back more money in the lifetime of the venture than you put in them. If banks don't have the "your money being in our bank is useful to us, so we actually pay interest" thing going on, than just about ANY venture you can buy into that will more than pay for itself over the time of the investment is generally a good thing, even if it doesn't exceed the inflation rate, it is still better than PAYING something to hold your money. Make that money work for you!

Of course, since your society doesn't seem to be doing the "the creation of ever newer and ever greater wealth primarily through private investment" sort of thing, and is focusing on that guild economy, maybe you can look for a city-state or area that has, um, a more growing, thriving, and advanced method of building wealth? Some place that doesn't have the guilds strangling new investment and ideas? Fund a few competing Rassimel economic and business theorists (look for ones who hate the guild system in general, and want to increase the size of the economic pie for all, as it were, rather than redistribute it...) to try out their ideas and make you money, perhaps?

[kris-schnee.livejournal.com]

That'd be a fun way to have both real estate and Doom. And then, find a way to charge adventurers for "extreme tourism".

"The Zi Ri who has less than half of zir hoard in land is an utter fool!”

I'm picturing an Orren investment advisor giving a regular performance called "Ludicrous Lozens" and telling people to buy land sell fruit buy metal sell skyship futures, according to what week it is.

[kensaro.livejournal.com]

Just don't invest in any orren get-fish-quick scheme. No matter how cute the orren in question.

[kensaro.livejournal.com]

Unless you're doing it to get into said orren's bed and consider the money to be a worthwhile write off.

[kris-schnee.livejournal.com]

In fact, as I understand it, the word "adventurer" used to mean "investor" as well as "traveling merchant". And both global insurance firm Lloyd's of London and the London Stock Exchange grew out of people who met in coffee-houses to talk about business ventures. Not far from the classic "adventurers meeting in a tavern" scenario!

[terrycloth.livejournal.com]

Sythyry's in a bunch of guilds, so it might be impolitic to start trying to bust up the guild system. It might even be personally unprofitable!

As for making your money work zir, I think that's the gist of zir ~mother~'s idea actually -- owning land with rent-paying tenants is a steady source of income regardless of how the investment value shifts.

[xolo.livejournal.com]

I explained my doom of the last few months to ~mother~. There was no real alternative to doing so. Zie hears about such things sooner or later, and best if I get to explain my side of them first.

There's some sort of a universal constant at work there...

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

That sounds very complicated and hard. I think I'm going to just buy land, hold parties, and make magic items.

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I had considered fleeing to another dimension in order to escape zir, but you have told me that that won't work either. Ah, well.

Re: Hmm...

[shurhaian.livejournal.com]

I don't know if that part of Sythyry's arrangement with Zascalle was exactly standard, though. Accountants are about the first people to be suspected of embezzling - people who are less nice might have had their accountants under tighter restrictions and not written quite so many cartes blanches as Sythyry did.

[shurhaian.livejournal.com]

It says something that the social dynamics and enchantment are EASIER than muddling with the world of finance as we know it!

[rowyn]

This is true. They can afford to take the Very Long view.

[deor.livejournal.com]

Do Guilds have their own banks or trust systems? Perhaps Sythyry should diversify, not put all zir eggs in one basket, so to speak. That could also be helpful as a drawing fund if the Guild(s) in question are sufficiently wide-spread and connected.

Re: Hmm...

[rowyn]

I think it was pretty typical. If it hadn't been typical, the Bank of Teleporting Hexagons probably would have questioned those transactions. Or would have recommended Sythyry not give so much authority to one Prime. That Zascalle having sole authority over zir entire wealth wasn't questioned strongly suggests that it's normal for nobles to entrust a close subordinate with broad authority.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Land has two major flaws:

1.) It is very illiquid, which make it very heard to convert to lozens when you decide you'd rather you the value represented there someplace else.
2.) Is generally immovable. Given the rapid changes in World Tree politics, having your assets in something which can be rendered not yours at the whim of the newest government is less than secure.

[yotogi.livejournal.com]

With the occasional truly epic freakout depending on which god's most visible at the time.

[alex-muridae.livejournal.com]

Which has suddenly given me a vision of wild-rushing Orren stockbrokers in the Wall Street Exchange...I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with the lizard on this one; that could be rather cute.

[Also, my apology to the translator; explaining Wall Street may be tough.)

[sythyry.livejournal.com]

I'm a member of four guilds, plus enchantment and adventuring! How much more diverse should I be?

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Oh just buy into and invest into businesses that make money as well as buying land. That's the long and short of it!

[greenreaper.livejournal.com]

On the plus side, if you're Zi-Ri you can usually wait them out until the next government comes along and promises you it back in return for your help toppling the first one.

[gavinfox.livejournal.com]

Uhm, ask your translator to explain the concept of financial diversification.

Basically, it means, "Investing money in many many broad types of ventures, so that, for your entire investment portfolio, you minimize risks with any one investment." Basically it means that, in a capitalist system like the one we are talking about, if you do this broadly enough and you simply wait enough years, you are basically guaranteed to make a ton of money, unless the culture in which your investments sit DIES.