sythyry | A Digression Upon Ethics And Love; [18 Lage 4385]; Economics of an Evil Wizard [18 Lage 4385]

Mirrored from Sythyry.

Me: “Well, you are here, and I am here. You have worked a vast betrayal and embezzlement against me and against all who dwell in Castle Wrong. We are outside of any city-state, so there is no law here. So I shall pick a punishment which I think is reasonable, and it shall be done.”

Zascalle: “That’s ridiculous. What hope have I of justice under such circumstances?”

Zascalle is clever, and knows my weak points. This is an easy one to know about, since I fussed about it at dinner after we captured the pirates, among other times.

But she actually has a point. In a city, she could get justice.

Cities have laws, governing correct behavior — or behavior that some primes consider to be correct, usually based on some reason or other. In the void, there are no laws. I will do something I consider to be correct. But it will be based on my own sense of the good and the right… which I hope is a reasonable one, but I have no great assurance of that.
Cities have courts and magistrates, devoted to the weighing of crimes and consequences, the consideration of mitigating circumstances, the examination of excuses. I am picking my own weighting, consideration, examination … and I am weighting the crime quite heavily, largely ignoring mitigating circumstances, and spitting on the excuses. As I am the victim of the original crime, and the inspirer of the mitigating circumstances, I am surely the worst person on wood to do this. I am likely to be ridiculously harsh … or, knowing me, ridiculously gentle. (I think my plan manages to do both at once.)
Cities have guards, excruciators, and executioners, devoted to the careful performance of punishments. Whatever I do, I will do on my own. Will an instant of squeamishness or anger double or halve my considered opinion of what the right punishment is? Probably. How fair is that, even given that my considered opinion is fair? Not.

Ultimately, I am simply a mighty mage who grabbed some people zie has a grudge on out of the middle air, and is working harm upon them according to zir own opinion of what the matter deserves. At that level of abstraction, there is no great difference between me and Oonanau the pirate sorceress of Dossimar, save that I have somehow done a better job persuading myself of the justice of my cause than she did. If that much; she might be a veritable bonstable of self-deception. And I might too … how would I know?

To be sure, there are observers: Kzip La Hish, Nangbang, Sazandigraa. They have abandoned their claims to the situation. They might not have done, if they thought I did not have some claim to justice. But they’re certainly not going to stop me from pronouncing judgment or imposing punishment. At the most, they might stop me from the worst excesses, or they might disapprove of me, speak ill of me to our mutual acquaintances and colleagues and relatives, and such as that.

So I am trying to behave well. I was trying to behave well when I started my affair with Thenel, say, and look how that turned out.

And I am very angry at Zascalle and Thiane. And I continue not to be very forceful or good at imposing my will on people.

Economics of an Evil Wizard [18 Lage 4385]

Zascalle: “Kzip! Are you a good wizard, or an evil wizard?”

Kzip: “I generally fancy myself an evil wizard. Why do you ask?”

Zascalle: “Sythyry is planning terrible things for me! I beg of you, I plead with you, that you destroy zir completely!”

Kzip: “Well, let us consider the matter. I was, until moments ago, somewhat upset with Sythyry. In all honesty I still am; I have merely agreed to accept zir admission of wrongdoing and compensation for running off with my Dorze, but the actual compensation is slightly delayed. Now, I don’t give a flying fig for your quarrel with the blue lizard. Would I try to kill Sythyry over Dorze? Why, I cannot think that I would. While I am, undisputably, an evil wizard, my preferred form of evil is stirring up wars and profiting off of them greatly. Killing Sythyry would not help this brand of evil! If anything, it would cut down on my opportunities to perform it, since Vheshrame is an excellent city to stir up wars with, and, while they have Sythyry and Vae, they are likely to stir up the kind of wars that profit me the most directly.”

Zascalle: “But … I could pay you! I would give you all of Sythyry’s fortune if you destroy zir!”

Me: “That doesn’t leave much money for healing Feralan.”

Kzip: “A tempting offer, and I am sufficiently mercenary to entertain it. But … could I kill Sythyry? Zie came here with a shocking and vulgar display of mystical weaponry, half of which I have never seen before and have no idea what it does. Could I kill zir despite it? Most likely. Would I die in the process, or spend more than four million lozens’ worth of supplies, or take a permanent injury? I should not be surprised. That makes it a poor choice of mercenary engagement.”

Me: “Well, assume Nangbang were on your side.”

Nangbang: “There is currently — for the next several days — no disagreement between Sythyry and myself!”

Me: “There is not! This is merely a thought-experiment. However, assume Saza were on my side.”

Saza: “Always, coz! Always!” Zie twined zir tailtip around mine, and, with a traffly-nervous twitch, I twined back.

Me: “I think that Kzip is ranked the most dangerous one here, Saza the second, myself the third, and Nangbang is ranked a sorcerer rather than a wizard at this point. Not that a sorcerer and high priest of Accanax is anything but a force to be reckoned with.”

Kzip: “That ranking leaves aside the fact that you are bristling with a demi-holocaust of weaponry, and I have nothing but a skeropythrope and a battered old drochsiarch!” She was not quite so unarmed as all that, but less than me.

Me: “Still, the balance is clear enough: Kzip and Nangbang are, very roughly comparable in power and danger to Saza and myself.”

Kzip: “Fair enough, though of course the balancing must be taken with considerable caution. Should I dare such an even and tricky battle for a modest sum of money? One I will have to split with Nangbang, or his next of kin?”

Me: “Which would be Treacle-Eyes, in fact.”

Nangbang: “That is a stupid name. I wish she’d change it already.”

Me: “Another point you may raise with her soon.”

Kzip: “In any case, I reject your offer, Zascalle. An immortal does not get full value out of her immortality talisman by taking risky offers! Sythyry has presented a safer bribe than any you could offer. Still, I do owe you a measure of thanks for plopping yourself into my wicked, wicked hands, giving me a superb bargaining chip for use against zir.”

Zascalle: “Then grant me assistance for doing you that favor!”

Kzip: “Right, then. I promise that, should Ochirion be threatened, I will exert myself somewhat to keep him safe. Seeing as he’s the only one on your side who isn’t an utter scoundrel or a potentially-monster.”

Nangbang: “Ah, it is wonderful to see the evil wizard at work, advancing the cause of wickedness in all ways! Battering down the pillars of justice, sloshing them with naphtha, and setting them ablaze!”

Kzip: “Shush, you, or the next time you’re lying in a shallow grave I’ll conjure up some digging scorch-beetles for you.”

Zascalle: “Alas! I am doomed!”

Kzip: “Like a proper evil wizard — quiet, Nangbang, I shall take no denial — I shall laugh at your doom! “

Me: “You’re a bad parent, too. You’ve managed to give up on both children in this conversation.”

She expressed much fury about that comment. I suppose I had not been terribly pleasant to her so far. And it was about to get considerably worse.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

But does not Zascalle claim that she robbed you out of fear for the safety of her children? So if she was any kind of parent other than the horrible sort, she would have made sure they were not feasible targets before making an enemy out of you. Even if you don't want to hurt the children! Because she says she thought you would!

She might say she was trying to when she took them thousands of miles away. I fear she was not entirely at her best when I caught up with her, though.

But that was after she unwisely robbed her benevolent if Doom-stalked benefactor! With that logic she might as well have hidden in Dossimar for all the good she's doing her children.

At least Sythyry is unlikely to want to hang around there!

The thing that gets me is that Zascalle is not only being irrational, she's doing so in an incredibly small-minded and selfish manner. Through this entire conversation, she hasn't shown a jot of concern for her children that wasn't self-serving, not that I can see. What happened to her deep and desperate love and concern for them? It's not in evidence now.

Frankly, the harm done to the children is looking more like an excuse, or at most a reminder of the harm that could be done to her, than any honest motivation on its own.

It was a weak excuse anyway, since she'd apparently made a long and complex plan to rob Sythyry even before leaving on the vacation -- and deciding to go along and bring her kids. She really is just using them as meatshields at this point. And all the while she's talking about protecting herself.

The "Digression" is an interesting one, and what happens next should be a pretty defining moment for Sythyry. Is zie confident enough in zir own judgment to wreak punishment on someone who's confessed to a major crime, or lawful enough to spend possibly the next several years and considerable expense hashing this situation out in a prime court?

Courts take years where you come from?

That is very literally a long story. In brief: they can, for more serious crimes. In an attempt to serve justice, we deliberate upon, argue, and debate what the crime is, the evidence, and even the law. Then, the trial can have appeals, with one side or the other asking for a change in verdict or going to yet higher and more prominent courts. It's not meant to take years, but it can, which is often considered better then wrongly imprisoning a possibly innocent person.

Of course, there could be a guild motivation here as well; the system is run by lawyers and judges, so...

A typical court for a dispute here will have a mediator and a dismediator. On each round (a round might take a day or two, I suppose more in a complicated case), each one proposes a settlement of the case. If everyone agrees with the mediator, they take the mediator's settlement. On all but the last round, the dismediator's settlement is simply informational. (Or is it? If everyone agrees on the dismediator's settlement, they could do that, I suppose ... but the dismediator's settlement usually is somewhat punative on the parties that the dismediator thinks are in the wrong, or being obstructive, etc.)

If, on the final round (usually there are three for cases I've been involved in, more for nasty ones I guess), there is no agreement, then the dismediator's settlement is adopted.

It sounds like your court cases begin with a presumption of guilt, then? If no one challenges the facts of the case, then things aren't going to take very long.

If one person's position is 'he murdered my brother' and the other person's position is 'he killed his own brother and is trying to frame me for it' then, what? I guess it goes on until the dismediator decides who's at fault and punishes them?

Our cases begin with a presumption of disharmony. (If there is harmony, there is rarely need for the court.)

Even if the facts are clear enough, the proper outcome can take quite a lot of arguing.

I wouldn't generally think that a murder was a dispute between two people -- would your people? Perhaps if the victim was a Sleeth, it might. This judicial form is used where a compromise of some form is the most appropriate.

Ah.

Well, yes, murder is a criminal matter, but so is theft. Stealing millions of lozens from someone wouldn't be considered a dispute in that sense in our court system either.

Why not? It is a dispute between me and her, and she has some claims on why she needs or deserves the money.

Not that I am giving her a chance in court, of course.

A running gag among students of "Alternative Dispute Resolution" is that it means, "Let's take this outside!" The phrase has new meaning in a Prime city.

I can imagine the news-sheets now: "Millionaire Mentador Master Seeks To Deny Medical Care To Children Zie Cursed! Grieving mother flees from doomful enchanter with insanely powerful pet monster."

An excellent point. Don't forget 'Pervert' in there; I usually get that kind of word early on. I would like to keep the matter fairly quiet.

I kind of got the impression that soliciting Prime justice was Not Done by someone in Sythyry's position. That getting the law involved was tantamount to saying that zie was incompetent to manage zir own affairs, and generally a cowardly, pathetic thing that no one with any kind of power or influence could do without facing humiliation and derision for decades if not centuries to come.

Which does seem like a pity, if I've got it right. Justice is a nice concept, and as Sythyry points out, it's not really justice if you're the sole arbiter of it.

Well, prime justice is mainly used between equals. If one count disputes with another, or two wizards, nobody would think ill of them for having a court mediate the matter. It is better than a vendetta! But a count who cannot handle a tradesman or an accountant is a laughingstock, to be sure.

That doesn't apply inside of a city, does it? I mean, if Zascalle stole from you in Vheshrame and stayed inside Vheshrame's walls, Vheshrame law would intervene if you wanted to kill her repeatedly or something.

Because I don't think Prime law would want nobles punishing random tradespeople at any time for any reason just by claiming the tradesperson had robbed the noble, without proving the claim in any legal way, for example.

How does Prime law handle it if the disparity goes the other way? Eg, if noble commissions an architect, builds the house, and then refuses to pay for the architect, I assume the architect would have legal recourse?

Well, of course. But there are a number of means.

Actually, I suppose a tradesman might take a noble to court, though of course most nobles would not show up in person.

A Digression Upon Ethics And Love; [18 Lage 4385]; Economics of an Evil Wizard [18 Lage 4385]

Economics of an Evil Wizard [18 Lage 4385]

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject